Peace Conference/Armistice

[Count Iblis]

There is a major difference between the openings of TOS and the new Production. The "Peace Conference" idea was OK, and frankly could have worked again in the new production I think? With some modernization/technical help to update battle scenes it would have been just fine.

The Armistice is bit harder for me to get used too because having the "Cylons" using the fleet computer codes to shut everything down makes any surviving ships like the "Pegasus" less plausable. I'm sure the writers can (If They Want To) bring the "Pegasus" back. Afterall this is SCI-FI so lot's of ways to do this, but the Armistice idea was very "Consuming" and created a situation where if anything did survive the initial "Cylon" attack, it would be out-dated or damaged, and easily destroyed.

In my humble opinion having the "Traditional" battle we see in the opening of TOS at the "Peace Conference" leaves much more room for a story like "Living Legend" to develop. I guess the "Pegasus" could have been out of range of the attack, was in dry-dock with systems off, under-repair at the time, or maybe a technician just spilled a cup of coffee on the console of the bridge computer and it's down?

Should the writers/producers even consider bringing the "Pegasus" back in this new series? Who would play "Cain"? Is sheba still around? I have to think about this some????? Any ideas/Thoughts?

Both openings are analogies for the times they were writen and reflect the fears of a segment of the American society.

In 1979 the U.S. was fighting the Cold War. A large peace movement was alive and well in the U.S. The nuclear freeze movement was alive and well. The ghost of Vietnam was a raw feeling. The President was considered by most to be weak and naive. Fear of a Soviet first strike helped along by the weakening of our defenses by a naive peace movement was a reality in the minds of many people, especially the conservative family audience at the core of TOS anticipated viewership. The opening of Saga of A Star World was a space version of the fears the audience really had. Saga of A Star World was the Soviet first strike in the guise of cylons, the ultimate Godless communist.

None of this applies today. The Soviet Union is no more. Today's President is not weak but if anything those on the left think a little too gung ho. No one worries about a nuclear missile strike from Russia today. What we have in our psyche today is the unexpected bolt from the blue that was 9/11. The feeling the mini was trying to evoke was that day as we sat by our TV watching, not knowing who was attacking us, or how did it happen. On 9/11 it is said Geaorge Bush wanted to fight back but no one could tell him who to attack. On the cyber attack aspect you only need to read current cyber military warfare articles written in the military press. Not something most people do but as a former nuclear, biological, and chemical warfare officer something I still keep current on. The concepts in the mini are exactly the type of attack feared in the future, especially by the Chinese military as America becomes increasingly reliant on computer and satellite technology. What would happen to all our smart bombs, cruise missiles, and navigation systems if the GPS satellites were disabled? We would die like the colonials.

Both shows are great examples of the times they were written. Both are great mirrors into the soul of America at the time.

On the subject of the time also consider that the cylon origin in both reflects the time. The cylons come in conflict with the colonials according to TOS because the colonial come to the defense of another civilization. It is the rationale of America defending South Korea or South Vietnam against communist or making NATO and therefor coming into conflict with the Soviet Union and China.

In the mini the cylon is a product of the human civilization. He has a twisted religion and sees the main society as decadent and no longer deserving its soul. The cylon of the mini is our Muslim extremist.

Galactica changed with the times. It is still an analogy for the fears of America.

[Boomer65]

Originally Posted by antelope526

The concepts in the mini are exactly the type of attack feared in the future, especially by the Chinese military as America becomes increasingly reliant on computer and satellite technology. What would happen to all our smart bombs, cruise missiles, and navigation systems if the GPS satellites were disabled? We would die like the colonials.

Both shows are great examples of the times they were written. Both are great mirrors into the soul of America at the time.

Actually, I thought the whole “losing our technology” concept was passé after the turn of the millennium – remember how everyone thought that we’d see planes dropping out of the sky? And the technology-turning-on-us angle was old when it was used in Terminator.

Originally Posted by Count Iblis

The Armistice is bit harder for me to get used too because having the "Cylons" using the fleet computer codes to shut everything down makes any surviving ships like the "Pegasus" less plausable.

IMHO, the whole “Galactica uses no networked computers” was high on my list of complaints with the mini. Especially when you see Adama using a corded phone. It just seems ill-conceived as you can see computers in operation throughout the mini. Wouldn’t it have been sufficient to say that Adama refused to upgrade to the latest computer networks that, coincidentally, the Cylons have an inroad to thanks to the hapless Baltar? But as you pointed out, this is fiction and as such anything is possible. Pegasus’ captain, being in the outer reaches of space could likewise have not received the latest technology like the rest of the fleet.

[Dawg]

A couple of points - in TOS, the Pegasus was lost 2 yahren prior to the destruction of the colonies. We (the audience) didn't know about this until the episode "Living Legend", which introduced Cain, Sheba and Bojay.

I would expect that, if Moore does utilize pieces of that episode, that something similar will be done - reference to some prior mishap (maybe somebody flushed a toilet at the wrong time, sending the navigation system into some spacial anomoly or something equally trekkie).

He certainly couldn't use a battle scenario as TOS did, given he did away with the war, for all intents and purposes; after 40 years with no contact, there would be no tested warriors in the whole blasted fleet - up to and including Adama (unless he was flying fighters at age 10).

Also, 9/11 was our generation's Pearl Harbor; sneak attacks both, many thousands dead. It was 60 years later, the means and technology were different, but the psychology would be the same.

All the rest of the changes you note between TOS and the mini just make it less BSG, in my opinion.



I am
Dawg

Your right Dawg the Pegasus can come from anywhere. It could have FTL jumped on its own when everything sounded hopeless. It could have been on deep space scientific research patrol beyond the cylons reach when the cylons attacked. There are 100 ways Moore could make it appear. I would love it if the Battlestar Pegasus this time turned into the U.S.S. Pegasus, a deep space Earth based warship that makes first contact with the colonials. Anything is possible.

9/11 was an attack that put fear into the population. They were out to kill us! Pearl Harbor was an attack on our military in an area that was yet to become a state. They were both shocks but nobody in the mainland U.S. worried that their own homes were or could be under attack the next day like we did on 9/12.

The idea of computer failures may have subsided in the civilian population but the subject is alive and well in the military community. Two Chinese Colonels wrote a nice book on asymetrical warfare that goes into depth about fighting America based on the fact that we are a computer dependent economic and military society. The loss of GPS alone during a major battle could spell defeat to a deployed force overseas at the wrong time.

If anything Moore is well versed on current and proposed future warfare doctrines. Another sign that Moore knows the subjects he writes about very well.

[shiningstar]

Originally Posted by Count Iblis

There is a major difference between the openings of TOS and the new Production. The "Peace Conference" idea was OK, and frankly could have worked again in the new production I think? With some modernization/technical help to update battle scenes it would have been just fine.

The Armistice is bit harder for me to get used too because having the "Cylons" using the fleet computer codes to shut everything down makes any surviving ships like the "Pegasus" less plausable. I'm sure the writers can (If They Want To) bring the "Pegasus" back. Afterall this is SCI-FI so lot's of ways to do this, but the Armistice idea was very "Consuming" and created a situation where if anything did survive the initial "Cylon" attack, it would be out-dated or damaged, and easily destroyed.

In my humble opinion having the "Traditional" battle we see in the opening of TOS at the "Peace Conference" leaves much more room for a story like "Living Legend" to develop. I guess the "Pegasus" could have been out of range of the attack, was in dry-dock with systems off, under-repair at the time, or maybe a technician just spilled a cup of coffee on the console of the bridge computer and it's down?

Should the writers/producers even consider bringing the "Pegasus" back in this new series? Who would play "Cain"? Is sheba still around? I have to think about this some????? Any ideas/Thoughts?

Good points Iblis ................too bad RDM didn't think so.

[shiningstar]

Originally Posted by Dawg

A couple of points - in TOS, the Pegasus was lost 2 yahren prior to the destruction of the colonies. We (the audience) didn't know about this until the episode "Living Legend", which introduced Cain, Sheba and Bojay.

I would expect that, if Moore does utilize pieces of that episode, that something similar will be done - reference to some prior mishap (maybe somebody flushed a toilet at the wrong time, sending the navigation system into some spacial anomoly or something equally trekkie).



I am
Dawg

Good one Dawg :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[PlaidSquadron]

Originally Posted by antelope526

9/11 was an attack that put fear into the population. They were out to kill us! Pearl Harbor was an attack on our military in an area that was yet to become a state. They were both shocks but nobody in the mainland U.S. worried that their own homes were or could be under attack the next day like we did on 9/12.

I beg to differ. Maybe no one in the interior of the country was worried, but people on both coasts were. In California, the thought of a Japanese invasion was on a lot of people's minds.

As for the Pegasus in the new series, I really hope not. RM wants to "redefine sci-fi" or so he has said. Why does he feel the need to use anything from the old show? Make up new stories, is what I say. I understand the need to use similar themes from the pilot (to get the whole "rag tag fleet searching for Earth" aspect going) but after that, why re do anything? Aren't there new stories to be told?

[shiningstar]

Originally Posted by PlaidSquadron

I beg to differ. Maybe no one in the interior of the country was worried, but people on both coasts were. In California, the thought of a Japanese invasion was on a lot of people's minds.

As for the Pegasus in the new series, I really hope not. RM wants to "redefine sci-fi" or so he has said. Why does he feel the need to use anything from the old show? Make up new stories, is what I say. I understand the need to use similar themes from the pilot (to get the whole "rag tag fleet searching for Earth" aspect going) but after that, why re do anything? Aren't there new stories to be told?

Actually people on the 'interior' of the country 'were worried' at the Los Alamos
Historical Museum there are papers the Albuqurque Journal .........where they
were indeed concerned and frightened of SPYS and of course of INVASION.

Whether or not the fears of the people of New Mexico were Justified is
however another matter.

[Dawg]

If anyone thinks the attack on Pearl Harbor didn't awaken mainlander's fears much as 9/11 did, do a little reading on the internment camps the US government set up and forced Americans of Japanese descent to live for four or five years. Prison camps for people who did nothing against our nation, who lost their homes and businesses and livelihoods because of it.



I am
Dawg

[shiningstar]

Originally Posted by Dawg

If anyone thinks the attack on Pearl Harbor didn't awaken mainlander's fears much as 9/11 did, do a little reading on the internment camps the US government set up and forced Americans of Japanese descent to live for four or five years. Prison camps for people who did nothing against our nation, who lost their homes and businesses and livelihoods because of it.



I am
Dawg

That's right Dawg and even when they got out of the internment camps
more often then not they never recovered what they lost .........unless
a caring neighbor took 'care' of their property FOR THEM.

I must confess that those internment camps were a BLOT on our NATION.