Galactica and Spirituality

[dah66]

Mr. Moore's remake script removed the religious overtones of the original series. I believe he did this because he didn't find that part of the series interesting on a personal level. I believe this is a mistake. Today, shows like John Edward are popular because people are looking for answers to bigger questions and they are looking in unusual places. This could be because we have seen too many religious fanatics and disgraced clergymen. Perhaps, it's just because people want their spirituality presented as easy to digest entertainment. For example, The Dead Zone is a popular show and the producers of that series recently acknowledged in TV Guide the importance of the shows underlying spirituality.
What do you think? If any new Galactica gets made, should it stay true to its religious roots or de-emphasize spirituality in general?
Thanks.
Dave

[peter noble]

I like the spirituality as presented in the TOS. It's a big thing that makes it different from other SF shows. I'd like this to continue in a prequel and continuation.

GAL is to be congratulated for this addition to the mythos.

Peter

[jewels]

I think it should keep the spiritual searching aspect. Adama had the clearest vision of what their faith was, though there were also references to other sects like those on Gemon. I imagine the Nomen were a bit different too. All the other main characters seemed to be searching a bit though and I liked that it wasn't all wrapped up for them, it was something that was another aspect of their journey toward Earth.

There is enough de-emphasis almost everywhere. I think people that have been through what the colonies went through (or even less cataclysmic events) often search for spiritual answers, significance, and it suits the Colonials' situation well to include that in their story. Maybe I'm being too "realistic"?
jewels

[Hito]

He hasent "removed" anything at this point in the game.
Just hasnt had a chance to explore it is all.

The original series really hadnt established any of the spiritual subtext that Galactica is known for in it's pilot episodes either.
Except for superficial stuff that is, like character names and the names of the diffrnet planets linked to the zodiac.
Which the new production has (except in a diffrent context)

I dont think it was till Lost Planet of the Gods that the original started to explore the religion of the Colonials and not till War of the Gods till they started getting deep into the sorta esoteric Demons vs. Angels spiritual stuff.

[Orrin_73]

The galactica in Ron Moore's script has more in common with our own world then with the original Galactica universe and thats exactly what I hate about it. The galactica I remember is one that was beyond everything we have. Their culture, mythology and religion differs so much from us that if I had a choice where to live I would choose to live in that universe. Ron Moore's galactica is just a cheap copy of present day earth with all of its miserys that I want to escape.

Originally posted by dah66
Mr. Moore's remake script removed the religious overtones of the original series. I believe he did this because he didn't find that part of the series interesting on a personal level. I believe this is a mistake. Today, shows like John Edward are popular because people are looking for answers to bigger questions and they are looking in unusual places. This could be because we have seen too many religious fanatics and disgraced clergymen. Perhaps, it's just because people want their spirituality presented as easy to digest entertainment. For example, The Dead Zone is a popular show and the producers of that series recently acknowledged in TV Guide the importance of the shows underlying spirituality.
What do you think? If any new Galactica gets made, should it stay true to its religious roots or de-emphasize spirituality in general?
Thanks.
Dave

[dah66]

Hito - In an interview, Moore made a remark about downplaying the mysticism and going for a more realistic approach (sorry, don't have the link). So, it would seem that he has no intention of following up on the spiritual subtext.

[Hito]

In that case i dont know how much more realistic that would be.

It is in times like the destruction of your homeworld that people turn to some kind of spiritual teaching for peace of mind if nothing else.

Like the saying goes
there are no athiests in fox holes.

[Thomas P]

Well, if the reviewer thinks that sf shows should take their cue from superstitious frauds like "Crossing Over"...

There's a good deal of religion in Moore's script; the Cylons are *very* spiritual. What Moore's eliminated so far are the faux-mythological references in the original.

[dah66]

Originally posted by Dennis
Well, if the reviewer thinks that sf shows should take their cue from superstitious frauds like "Crossing Over"...

There's a good deal of religion in Moore's script; the Cylons are *very* spiritual. What Moore's eliminated so far are the faux-mythological references in the original.

Dennis,

Whoa, cowboy. I'm not saying that SF shows should take anything from John Edward. Personally, I think the dude is the worst thing on the SCI FI channel. My point is that people are watching that show for answers, and other shows that have supernatural, or spiritual overtones.
Therefore, removing those elements from BSG is taking away something that people are looking for and something that made the original special.

The idea of the Cylons finding religion just seems funny to me. Again, this is the opposite of the original series (humans were spiritual, Cylons were soulless).

Dave

[Muffit]

Hi all,

I liked the spiritual elements. They added a mystique to the series. And an ongoing mystery is always a good thing in a show. We never really know if the beings of light are sci-fi's answer to angels or just evolved beings (altho' that is suggested). And the mere suggestion that Iblis is a demon is pretty cool I thought.

Anyway, I liked that part of BSG, and would like to see it stay.

[dah66]

I should have clarified that I met spirituality in relation to the human characters, not the Cylons. Personally, I have no desire to see robots searching for God while getting revenge against their human creators/oppressors.

Also, I have not read Moore's remake script. I based my comments on script reviews and Mr. Moore's comments to the press.

Thanks.

Dave

[havoc315]

It would appear that the RDM production has *more* spirituality than the original pilot. It's not as if the original pilot really had any explicit spirituality that I recall. The remake makes similar references to "The Lords of Kobol." And adding more spirituality than the original, the cylons have developed their own religion.

Having read the script now, at least the first night, many of my fears are actually allayed. While there are still some aspects I don't care for, for the most part, I really look forward to seeing this on the screen!

[Hito]

I read the first part of the script last night.

Most of the concerns that people have latched on to have been so far overblown that it is not even funny.
Especially the spirirual undertone.
There is actualy MORE of a spiritual presence in the first episode of moores story than in the first 3 of the oriignal.

I will be trying to put together a first impressions review sometime today.

[dah66]

Am I the only kid on the block that has not read this script??? Somebody please share!

In the original pilot, there was a biblical vibe going on. For example, Adama stands high atop a mountain, dressed in flowing robes, and delivers the "Let the word go forth..." speech. Here, Adama is more of a spiritual leader than a military leader. I mean, could you see Colin Powell delivering the same kind of speech? If any military leader today started off a speech with "Let the word go forth" he would never be allowed to address the public again.

My point - This element seems to have been removed from the human characters. I'll miss it. Maybe it will be added later. If so, cool.

Dave

[Thomas P]

Moore has created the colonial world of Kobol as a far more contemporary analogue of our society than Larson's BSG did, and so the comparison to the behavior of public figures like Colin Powell is quite apt. The colonials do have religious traditions -- one minor character aboard the Galactica, Elosha, is both a priest and a member of the Quorum of Twelve.

[havoc315]

Originally posted by dah66


My point - This element seems to have been removed from the human characters. I'll miss it. Maybe it will be added later. If so, cool.

Dave

From the script, a priest:
"... with humility and piety we ask for your blessing, oh Lords of Kobol..."

Adama: "Children of the Lords of Kobol."
(part of a greater speech which is far more humanitarian than military)

Countless mentions of "god" by humans and cylons alike.

And that's all just in the first night. The speech you refer to by Adama, that would occur in the second night, if there is a similar speech. But, perhaps my memory is faulty, I don't recall Adama EVER standing atop a mountain wearing white flowing robes. There is a voice over with the words "Let the word go forth"...
and while such wording is indeed epic, I would hardly call it spiritual or religious.

I have only read the script for the first night, I hope to get my hands on the script for the second night. But what I have read so far sounds very exciting and entertaining. Is it different than the original Galactica?? Yes, very different. But in many ways, it's also very similar, touching on the same themes but with greater depth and appreciation. (And exploring a few new themes as well).

In the end, I would not be surprised if this Galactica pilot was *better* than the original. At least based on what I've read so far. (Yes, there are a few things I would change... but they are mostly superficial).

[Hito]

To augment havoc's point i went and found a couple of the lines that stood out to me after reading the first episode.

What we have here is proof that debunks the notion that Moore has gone in to destroy the spiritual aspect of BSG.

In the first episode there is a debate as to the exixtance of god, there is actual prayer and later on people turning to a higher power in a time of crisis.
Just as i said earlier in this thread.

ELOSHA (80) a wizened priest, is at the podium, while the assembled crowd bows its head in prayer.

ELOSHA
... and thank you for the protection of ships like this and the brave men and women who manned them.
The prayer over, Elosha goes back to his seat as Doral heads to the podium.

LAURA (cont'd)
We'll need a priest.

[dah66]

Dennis, Havoc, and Hito,

Thanks for providing those details.

Havoc - I didn't say that Adama was wearing white robes. He was wearing his regular blue robe, or cape-like garment. From what I remember, he was standing on what appeared to be an overlook, which to me implied a high altitude. It was there that he started his speech, which then dissolved to the voice over that you mentioned (to the best of my recollection). In my opinion, the wording and subtle symbolism was met to evoke a biblical feel. I could be wrong. It's possible that I've just seen to many old Chuck Heston bible movies!

Dave

[havoc315]

dah,

Ok, I see what you mean. And yes, I could see interpretting it as a biblical feel. Alternatively, you could also just say it has a historic-moment type of feel. And though I have only read the first night of the script, I can assure you there are similar "historical moments." Perhaps most pronounced being the swearing in of the new president.

I won't stand here and tell you that this script is the same as the original BSG, it definitely certainly is NOT. Much of the criticism is well-justified, but I am finding most of the criticism to be simply "It's different!" And somehow jumping to the conclusion that it must be bad because it's different. A non-sequitor.

[Thomas P]

havoc315, we have a discussion going on over at www.subspacebbs.com about the script as well, if you want to drop by. That goes for the rest of youse as well, but I must warn you that virtually all of Subspace is a Spoiler Zone -- if you don't want script details, avert your eyes.

As i said in other thread, IF one remove any reference to galactica, one can find some really good writing. For me, what spoils it is that i can't see Lee Adama as Apollo, because they are too different, same goes with Adama, Tigh (i hated this one), Boomer and Starbuck (hated it too).
Try one thing, in Word, do a "find & replace" to all names from the old show (Galactica, Kobol, Adama, etc), Replace that by names you made up, and read the script.
I did it and sudenly i had something much better. There still are things i would change, but it's less bad than before.

About the religious aspects, i think maybe RDM wants (if this developes into a series) to make those robots become religious fanatics, much like the "Islamists", or the like the catolics(sp?) in the "inquisition" times.

BTW, "Life here began out there" is, in this script, only true for the 13th Colony not for all like in the original (all 13 came from Kobol), and if it's like this, why is Adama saying it? In RDM's version, Adama has no reason to say it. He is on Kobol and only the 13th tribe is away from where "Life began".

And it will be hard to explain why all those Battlestars, if the War took place only in the planet, they don't know other races and didn't established colonyes on other planets.

Technicaly also, how can you "jump" to uncharted space?? How can one be shure there will not be a star or planet at the end of the "jump"??

[havoc315]

Lusitan,

I wrote a long reply to your post, but somehow it got all lost. As I'm a bit busy, I don't want to start again from scratch, so I will just briefly summarize what I was going to say.

For those people saying they would accept RDM's project if he just stopped using any names from Galactica at all, I don't buy it. If he did that, then I think those same people would be complaining that RDM was ripping off the original Galactica. (Much like many Babylon 5 fans claim Deep Space 9 was a rip off). The fact is, despite many key differences, the RDM Galactica still has much in common the original. To simply change the names would be a ripoff, not an original production.

Furthermore, you said you don't "see" the characters as the originals. Here, I partically agree and partially disagree. First off, Boomer and Tigh were largely inconsequential in the original and could have been played by anyone. (Tigh just stood around and nodded to Adama, Boomer was akin to Wedge from Star Wars, just an extra pilot).
The other characters: Batlar is VERY different. Still an antognist, but for different reasons.
Starbuck: Somewhat similar, but I agree I don't see her as the original Starbuck, not even a female version of the original Starbuck. The original had a devlish charm that is lacking here. I see the new Starbuck as more of a female version of the Tom Cruise character, Maverick, from Top Gun.
Apollo and Adama: I disagree totally. As I read the script, I could completely picture Lorne Green's and Richard Hatch's characters.

Your other comments seem to be excessive nitpicking. Just seeking out problems for the sake of finding problems. Is their FTL travel really any more incredible than see in any other science fiction? (including the original BSG, which never mentioned FTL travel, yet were still able to go quickly from solar system to solar system).

[Thomas P]

As far as the "life began out there..." -- Moore's script implies strongly that human life isn't native to Kobol; that's why the twelve colonies are called "the twelve colonies". It's stated that in the "early days" a thirteenth tribe left Kobol and went on to Earth.

The "jump technology" or whatever in the script works along lines that would be familiar to anyone who's read much science fiction just as "warp drive" or "hyperdrive" would be, and makes as much "technical" sense as those others. In fact, all of the technology in this script makes more sense than in the original (in which nothing really is explained anyway, so the sense of it is almost moot). It also supplies a credible, immediately dramatic reason for the ragtag fleet's permanent abandonment of Kobol.

Havoc315,

I said it was easier to read without references to the old show. Not that i accept it. And you're right, i would also call it a rip off.

Boomer : don't agree with you. He is very present in the original pilot.
Tigh : Too weak for a man in his position, in the new script.
Starbuck : agree.
Adama : it's close, but also too insecure for someone in his position and with his experience.
Apollo : I agree, and i even liked it.
Baltar : Same as Apollo.

Other coments : my opinion and looking for other people's opinions. Just that.

[havoc315]

Lusitan,

Of course I completely respect your right to your opinions, I was simply sharing my own in partial rebuttal.

On Boomer, I still disagree with you. You say he was very "present," but what did he do in the original? He was really just an extra. What were his hobbies or interests? What were his family relationships like? The role really could have been filled by just about anyone. It's much like the supporting roles in the original Trek (Sulu, Chekov, Uhuru), they were present but could have been filled by anyone.

On Tigh, I agreed with you, before I read the script. After reading the script, I have changed my position. Yes, he starts out *very* weak, but he rises to meet the new challenges. In the original, he was strong only in the sense of a strong card board cut-out, he didn't really do anything.

About Boomer, if i do remember well, there were allways the 3 pilots. let's see... On the cargo ship, then on the Rising Star, then on the planet and in the casino, then when they cleared the mine field... OK, let's say they were the 3 musketeers but the production forgot to develop the third one in the series.

On Tigh, true that he rises but still was not what i expected from the one who is second in command, that should be more experienced than that.

[Stevew]

I think a lot could have been resloved, story, characters etc if BSG had not died a premature death. There was much going on at the time and comprimises had to be made at the expense of story and character development. IMHO

S

[dah66]

Originally posted by Stevew
I think a lot could have been resloved, story, characters etc if BSG had not died a premature death. There was much going on at the time and comprimises had to be made at the expense of story and character development. IMHO

S

Steve,

You're absolutely right. However, I have read the "confidential documents" for Galactica's proposed second season and let's just say that it would have been a mixed bag. There would have been more emphasis on character driven stories, but there was still an over reliance on science fiction clichés -- a planet where women rule and men are subservient, a planet ruled by beautiful teens that are actually quite old, and the list goes on. Still, Isaac Asimov was willing to come onboard as the shows creative consultant and he would have most likely torpedoed these ideas.

Dave

[Stevew]

Interesting. Maybe those would have gone over in the 70's. I have been spoiled by seeing Richards trailer
S

[Hito]

Speakin of...
How goes the move to get that puppy out to the masses?

I could still convinced by a well put together visual piece over a script...