how many "tos" character will make it into the (new) mini (series)

[sharpe26]

okay, so we already got

Adama
Apollo
Starbuck
Boomer
Boxey
Baltar
the Cylons
Iblis? (six referring to (a) god)

To me that leaves the following
Cain (though the living legend is afcourse rumored to be reimagined as well)
Sheba
Cassie
Serina

I've already got a pretty good idea on how to introduce Cassie to the new series, but I'd like to hear from some more people about this.

[Darth Marley]

Did they introduce Cass in the first episode?
I thought Starbuck found her on one of the other ships later in the plot.

Part of that memory loss science has warned me about.

[sharpe26]

cassie wasn't in the mini but appeared either late in the first part or definetly in the second part of saga of a star world.

the thing is someone on here mentioned religious extremism. That gave me an instant flashback to the "otori sect." and that's how it panned out to four pages

[Darth Marley]

Oh,yeah,the Ovions (?) had her partially digested didn't they.

[kingfish]

I wouldn't be surprised if she is played by none other than Kate Mulgrew of Voyager fame.

[Dawg]

Originally posted by Darth Marley
Oh,yeah,the Ovions (?) had her partially digested didn't they.

Actually, they were just putting her into one of the chambers when Apollo and Starbuck showed up.

And "Ovions" is correct, Darth.

I am
Dawg

[kingfish]

There was a script that had Cassi dying at the hands of the Ovions. She wasn't in Gun on Ice Planet Zero which was supposed to be the second episode of the series even though Laurette's name appears in the credits.

[dec5]

I hope Moore changes his mind about Athena.......Adama could have a daughter from another marriage. I would like to see Maren Jensen come back in some form......perhaps as a scientist or a doctor.

Since the mini has nothing to do with TOS, there hasn't been any charactors from TOS portrayed yet. Asking which Tos characters will appear in any further Moore productions is a moot point.

[Sept17th]

Unless many changes are done to the mini-series “battlestar universe” I’d rather see them drop the call signs and TOS characters. The producers should just go off in their own new direction.

[Dawg]

:laugh: I wondered when someone would finally say that!!! :laugh:



I am
Dawg

[Dennis]

They ought to do "The Living Legend" and use those characters; that was about the only story after the pilot with much potential.

[thomas7g]

Originally posted by Dennis
...that was about the only story after the pilot with much potential.

*kicks dennis*

:laugh:

There is always that rumor that Larson owns the characters introduced outside of the pilot. So that could make Sheba, Iblis, and Cain legally more difficult to introduce.

[thomas7g]

Cassie as a character would make a good mesh into the miniseries, though her role would compete with Six's in that both girls play the kind of femme fatale that aren't afraid to chase after and land the guy.

Now I'm talking about the Cassie as she was originally written. After the pilot, the networks really forced her to lose her "prostitute" sexual forwardness, and she became a tame medtech.

[dec5]

Athena was the character that always captivated me...only because her character was written as a strong and reserved independent female...as well as a equal to Starbuck....a quiet woman with her own agenda and the potential to follow her father footsteps.
Athena and Sheba seemed to be the same character.....the only difference is that Athena never flew after the 3rd eppy......what a waste....grrrrrrrrrrrr. Athena also seemed to be basically headed for command staff duties instead of a fighter pilot job.

Aside from looking like a super model.....Maren really talked great techno jargon......and made it look natural next to Sara Rush.

As it would seem both versions of BG have no idea how to use this magnificent character.....only because she would become the main focus IMO. The new Boomer is the only one that comes close to Athena.....with all the great qualities I mentioned.

Originally posted by Bijou88
Since the mini has nothing to do with TOS, there hasn't been any charactors from TOS portrayed yet. Asking which Tos characters will appear in any further Moore productions is a moot point.

Well - some were close. Zak was still not a good pilot (although he wasn't bad in the first, but dead either way) and Apollo still starts off so arrogant that you want to hit him - kinda wish Kara had, but that's another story.

I still prefer the standard characters to the new ones. I did not like Six, actually PREFERRED John Colicos as Baltar (at least he didn't snivel so much in the first episodes - self serving, yes, but the new one... eesh) and couldn't figure out the point of Billy. But then, I guess a little of me is die-hard - I absolutely loved the mini, but I could have done with a lot more Galactica time, reduced Colonial One time, and they could have left out the Caprica scenes (except the ones with Boomer and Helo, maybe) all together. I didn't mind the new bridge characters - Dualla was interesting and Gaeta was really good - but the extraneous characters just seemed to take up screen time. Yeah - I know - we need it to comprehend the story, but I still preferred the action on the Galactica to elsewhere.

-Crys-

I have spent a lot of time thinking about "In Harm's Way" and the changes done to it in the mini to facilitate the series. As such I think Moore is a lot more familiar with TOS than he or his detractors let on or realize. I speculate that he saw all the TOS episodes and probably BSG1980 also. I don't think he wants to redo season 1 because we already know what happened and it would set him up to be hated (even more) in every episode. As such I think the characters at the end of the mini are based on where we stood at the end of TOS season 1 with an idea or two from BSG1980. As such I think we are getting TOS season 2 in the mind of Moore without any "baggage" from TOS season 1. Objectively think about these possibilities and remember a "character" is not a name or call sign:

Adama: At the end of season 1 commands the last Battlestar and the rag tag fleet WITH a council of 12 led by Siress Tinia (President Roslin). Siress Tinia (Roslin) gets under his skin at times but there may be a spark between the two.

Apollo: The only surviving son of Adama. Although he was estranged from his father at the start of the mini now he has a new found respect and will be the loyal strike leader son Adama at the end of TOS season 1 loved and could count on.

Apollo has a friend but possibly a budding love interest in an earlier arrogant but later tender top viper pilot named....Sheba. Kara Thrace has a callsign of Starbuck but her "character" is Sheba from the end of TOS season 1. Kara lost Zac just like Sheba lost Bojay. She will turn to Apollo this coming season as we all hoped at the end of TOS. Since we have no Serena we don't need a year of mourning for Apollo to find his new love.

The female most responsible for Boxey at the end of TOS season 1 was Athena. She was not a "viper" pilot but more of a CIC/intel type officer. The mini Boomer is filling her role. Athena started with a passionate relationship with Starbuck. At the end of the mini Boomer still had a passionate relationship with Tyrol.

The Boomer/Tyrol relationship could easily turn into a Starbuck/Athena/Cassiopeia love triangle. Cassie may be the mini Calley. At the end of TOS season 1 Cassie was a med tech, a regular member of the military crew. I think we will find the new "Cassie" there. I think the name Calley is more than a coincidence. Some people say Athena was getting relegated to cameo roles near the end of TOS season 1. If the new Boomer gets killed as a cylon I think we will see the expected evolution of Athena disappearing off the show.

Baltar was with the fleet but in jail at the end of TOS season 1. Putting him in jail would have made it nearly impossible to use his character so we start season 2 with this baggage removed so he has free run for now.

Boomer was an African American supporting character who was never drawn out in TOS series 1. He never had a love interest. He basically just did his job. In the mini we have a loyal support African American character, the woman who worked in CIC (forgot her name). We also see Moore start to give her a love interest (forgot his name---Roslin's sidekick). As such she is playing the "Boomer TOS character" but with a lot more promise for development.

Boomer's friend from TOS season 1 was Jolly, another loyal but support character who was never drawn out. In the Roslin sidekick we find the "Jolly" character. This time the relationship between "Boomer and Jolly" looks a bit more interesting.

Colonel Tigh was again a loyal workhorse with no deep story at the end of TOS 1. I think they will try to give us a deeper character this season.

Human cylons - One of the few interesting concepts to come out of BSG1980.

In conclusion: The "mini universe" season 1 is TOS season 2 character wise:

Adama = Adama
Tigh = Tigh
Siress Tinia = Roslin
Apollo = Apollo
Sheba = Starbuck
Athena = Boomer
Starbuck = Tyrol
Cassiopeia = Cally
Boomer = CIC African American woman (forgot name)
Jolly = Roslin sidekick (forgot his name)
Baltar = Baltar
Count Iblis = Cylon 6 (maybe)
CIC Ops officer (forgot his name) = CIC Ops officer (forgot his name)
Boxey = Boxey

We will probably get a remake of some of the best TOS 1 episodes like the Pegasus and Ice Planet episodes just for the ratings. I expect Commander Caine will return (Watch "Starbuck" be revealed as his daughter).

If you give a new series a chance I think you will find all your TOS "characters" are there pretty much as you left them at the end of season 1.

The character of "Serena" (I won't bet on the name) is not coming back because that character was dead by the end of season 1 and would cause problems writing for the "Apollo/Sheba" relationship.

What was the mini?
1. A remake of "In Harm's Way"
2. Less than 4 hours to bring the uninitated from Saga of a Star World to the characters at the end of TOS season 1.

Moore did neither perfect but a pretty good job accomplishing both missions in one movie.

[Titon]

They ought to do "The Living Legend" and use those characters; that was about the only story after the pilot with much potential.

Personally i hope the hell they stay away from the Living Legend or for that matter i hope they just leave the original alone. There's not enough power in the new mini to justify bleeding this premis from the original.

The living legend is something that cannot be recreated in today's enviroment. NO ONE can recreate the character i remember as Commander Cain other than the man himself. And we all know that's not possible. Leave it alone.

If the mini goes to series, which i haven't heard jack about for a month, let it "truely" stand on it's own merits and please do not rob the original of anything. Besides if the mini is so much better than the original then why not let it stand on it's own 2 feet and let's see how far it get's.

[BST]

[size=large]A M E N ![/size]

...and thank you.

[larocque6689]

Originally posted by Dennis
They ought to do "The Living Legend" and use those characters; that was about the only story after the pilot with much potential.

Dennis

On top of "Living Legend", I would also look at "War of the Gods", and "Lost Planet of the Gods". Both "War of the Gods", and the second part of "Lost Planet of the Gods" were the key episodes which helped establish the "mythos" of the original series.

In "War of the Gods", the human/Cylon conflict was redefined within the context of a battle between the greater powers, those of Iblis and the Ship of Lights (and ultimately good and evil itself). This is a type of story which I felt was told more effectively within Babylon 5's "Shadow War" arch. "Lost Planet of the Gods" firmly established the Von Daniken 13th tribe elements of Galactica. Until that episode, we only had Adama's speech in the pilot to guide us.

I honestly don't know if either would be a good "fit" for the miniseries universe, but those were key episodes in the original series.

[larocque6689]

antelope.

Some minor corrections.

>Boomer = CIC African American woman (forgot name)

Dualla is actually a "revisioned" Rigel. She performed the same function on the bridge. Dualla has considerable more screen time than Rigel who was relegated to saying such lines as "launch when ready".

>Count Iblis = Cylon 6 (maybe)

I don't see that working here. If there is an Iblis or an Imperious Leader you'd have to go higher up on the food chain.

I can't see them remaking Gun on Ice Planet Zero. It was a pale remake of "Guns of Navarone" with the central plot device from "Dirty Dozen". Title may have been taken from Ice Station Zebra though.

I've long since wondered what it is about this episode that never caught on with me, but it could have been the lack of Laurette Spang and the over-reliance on "tech" and special effects - and too much Boxey (who should have been shoved out of an airlock - and not revisioned 70s hair and all for 2003).

One of the things I used to do with BSG episodes years ago was to evaluate which ones were either good stories or helped advance the mythos of the series. Gun on Ice Planet Zero didn't do much of either. According to Sue Paxton, the original first draft from John Ireland was much, much worse than the one they used in the series.

Other than looking at key story elements from Living Legend, Lost Planet of the Gods and War of the Gods - I hope they generally stay away from remaking original series episodes. They have every right to look at the mythos of the original series and see what will work. But as a general rule, they should establish their own direction for the series.

[Sept17th]

Gun on Ice Planet Zero's redeming value is it's straight up action and cool FX. I enjoyed the clones and Dr. Ravishol...like the rest of TOS I hope the mini-series producers stay away.

The point that Dualla is more like Rigel is a good one. Both Boomer and even more obviously Rigel were support characters . As such Dualla could take eithers place and become an easily more developed character. I thought Rigel was cute but she had very few lines in TOS. No one could (although I am sure many would) complain about Rigel being "reimagined" because everything about her was left to your imagination in the first place.

Living Legend in TOS was may favorite episode. I don't however view it as sacred. Lloyd Bridges was a great Commander Cain but let's face it he was doing a great job playing pretty much the same character made famous a few years earlier played by George C. Scott in the Oscar winning movie, "Patton". Both characters are based on the real life person of General Patton from World War II fame. Lloyd Bridges actually had a superficial similarity of appearance.

I look forward to seeing a new version of "Living Legend" and am willing to bet if made it will be the highest rated episode of the season.

On the cylon 6 = Count Iblis possibility: I put maybe next to that one. Even I think I was stretching on that. I do think that cylon 6 at this point is probably the only truely new "character" in the upcoming series. If Baltar is actually crazy she isn't even a real character. Time will tell.

[BST]

I can understand the point, I think, about re-doing some of the more popular TOS episodes. Why not, it would be nice to see how they would turn out, as written by Moore.

The question that I ask is "Why?"

--For nearly 2 years, we've had a steady stream of reports on how this mini-series would be 're-inventing science fiction', how this mini-series is a show that should be 'given a chance' and 'judged on its own merits', how it should NOT be directly compared to TOS. Fine. That's applaudable. There are already enough differences between the mini-series and TOS, that it is not the same show. These same folks that are trumpetting the differences between the mini-series and TOS, are all too ready to 'go back to the well' of TOS and, basically, 'cherry-pick' the good things and call it NEW, IMPROVED, and (gasp) "sophisticated".

I think not. If, and I say if, this mini-series is to be 'judged on its own merits' and if it is to be a 'reinvention of science fiction' then, create a different storyline. Tell some new tales. Why limit the storytelling to that which has already occurred. If one constantly goes back to TOS for story fodder, can one ever escape its shadow?

BST

I am beginning to think the whole "reimagination" and the female Starbuck was nothing but a publicity stunt. It got people fired up. They talked about the mini to their friends and then a lot of people watched. I would say the marketing plan was a great success.

Can you imagine if they said up front, "We are going to remake a 1960's Navy movie in the SCIFI genre and try to give you the characters at the end of season 1 of Battlestar Galactica." If they would have called Starbuck, Sheba I don't think the mini would have gotten half as much word of mouth.

The angry fan is probably the best friend SCIFI has. As jjarman's message says on all his post... they are listening even when they say they aren't.

They'll go back to the well because it makes money. The same way TOS went back to the well of Patton and the Dirty Dozen. Everything old is new again!

[BST]

antelope,

Sadly yes, it does give the appearance of a "publicity stunt". In a way, that's what we've been saying these past months and unfortunately, the issue was never with the fans of the mini, it was with those who produced it. I'm sorry if any of the fans got caught in the cross-fire, that was never my intent or anyone else's, if I could be so bold as to say that. Our issue, truly, was with the proverbial "Powers That Be".

BST

[Dawg]

Originally posted by BST
antelope,

Sadly yes, it does give the appearance of a "publicity stunt". In a way, that's what we've been saying these past months and unfortunately, the issue was never with the fans of the mini, it was with those who produced it. I'm sorry if any of the fans got caught in the cross-fire, that was never my intent or anyone else's, if I could be so bold as to say that. Our issue, truly, was with the proverbial "Powers That Be".

BST

Very true, BST, and that should be trumpeted from the rooftops.

I am
Dawg

[Hito]

Originally posted by Dennis
They ought to do "The Living Legend" and use those characters; that was about the only story after the pilot with much potential.

The new Adama is less like his TOS counterpart and more like Kane.
So a reworked living legend might be redundant.

All the 2 part episodes are the the ones with the potential.
The rest was mostly filler.

A war of the Gods rework could allow the cylons to be developed further, but i am not sure how well the metaphysical subject matter would work in BSG.
I suppose if they handled it in a classic sci fi manner or like JMS did with the old races it might work.

Originally posted by Sept17th
Unless many changes are done to the mini-series “battlestar universe” I’d rather see them drop the call signs and TOS characters. The producers should just go off in their own new direction.

not gonna happen.

Originally posted by Dawg
:laugh: I wondered when someone would finally say that!!! :laugh:

no one has ever stoped saying it.

[Darth Marley]

I would say the "reinvention" of the genre comment is also in the category of publicity stunt. Or more appropriately, propaganda.
If it were truly and completely reinvented, then it would spawn a new genre, and would need to be named something besides sf. I will grant that the effort failed in that regard, and does not even create an original category of sub-genre.
I view the reinvention comment as setting an impossible standard. I do what all true believers do when faced with the impossible, I refuse to take it literally.

I think (assuming series is go) we will see a Living Legend knock off. RDM is on record about this. I would love to see this.

Sure, it is cherry picking, and I can understand some consternation from your point of view BST.

Giving a nod to the classic series could be interpreted by some as flattering recognition of TOS, and by others as blasphemy. Some of the TOS one-shot "filler" episodes like "Fire in Space" could be touched on, but thoroughly revamped. I am not so sure I would really like this, but I can say there is a possiblity of it being done well.


I have mentioned elsewhere that I do not want to see much in the way of alien life and cultures that are suddenly introduced. Sure, they are jumping into uncharted space, and could find anything. I just fear this would send the show down the "planet of the week" road. Certainly not reinventing the genre.
If I get my wish in this regard, it leaves little material to build a show around except the conflict with the Cylons, and the human vs human and fight for survival kinds of stories.

I would not favor the Hand of God being reimagined. I don't think it will graft to this at all. I think the religious aspects will examine the Cylon belief in possesing a soul. And the mini-Colonial's religious beliefs have the same element that Earth is a lost colony, so the scriptures of the Colonials would have to be examined. Some good material can emerge there. Maybe the preist class has "hidden" or "secret" scriptures that would reveal the true reason contact with Earth was lost.

Maybe the timeline could find Earth in a distant,forgotten past with technology on par with the Colonials, and the Cylons almost wipe us all out after they find Earth, but for some reason are defeated and humans lose all their technology.

Besides the Living Legend, I would agree that what has not been introduced already from the original should probably be left alone.

The Adama of the mini may not be so different than the Adama of TOS. We basicaly saw 48 hours of a man's life. We only know a little of what happened before and we can only guess at the future.

We know that mini-Adama had a strained relationship with his son because of the issue with Zac. Before that what was their relationship like. Obviously it was good enough that Lee Adama decided to follow the footsteps of his father into colonial military service. Was TOS Apollo ever estranged from his father? We don't know because we have no idea what went on in their family prior to "Saga of A Star World". As of the end of the mini the relationship is pretty much the same as at the end of "Saga of a Star World".

The mini-Adama doesn't come to realize the futility of fighting on until late in the mini. In "Saga of A Star World" Adama realizes early on that the fleet is annihilated. He is in the "give them hope" mode for half the movie. The episodes where TOS Adama is in the aggressive warrior mode is very similar to the mini-Adama.

TOS Adama "knows" Earth exist but doesn't know where. The mini Adama says he "knows" where Earth is but in private says he doesn't know to Roslin. First of all we don't know who Adama trust because of the cylon issue. Mini-Adam may know where Earth is but doesn't want to discuss it with Roslin. I also think that in this day and age people (audience and rag tag fleet) would not accept a leader who headed off somewhere into Deep Space based on an unconfirmed myth. As such by saying "Earth was our closest guarded military secret" we don't need to worry about the audience asking "Why don't they just stop here", especially if there is a terra style episode down the road. Maybe mini-Adama has "faith" in the mythos but just like religious people today you tend to play down religious belief when you work or lead among a secular society.

I think we see the start of a lot of introspection into our own society when it comes to religion if the mini goes to series.

On the timeline issue I think it would be interesting if they either found Earth:

1) In our distant future where we are technologically similar and then base the series on a reconquest of the colonies in season 2 or 3.

2) End the show by finding a planet that is obviously to us "Earth" but in our distant past. There are no people on Earth. The colonials running out of fuel and supplies stop the quest, name the new homeworld Earth, and are forced to start anew at the neolithic level. It ends with the original speech by a narrator about being the ancestors of the Eqyptians, Toltecs, and Myans. Maybe a final scene with a starship reaching "Earth" in our times and the people on board saying, "We are picking up transmissions from the planet. That's strange they refer to their planet as "Earth" also. Maybe there is something to the old religion that there were 12 other colonies."