A little something to think about

[Mustex]

O.k., this is for the detractors. Consider the following post from BSGC:

I can't believe someone on Skiffy actually brought up a really good point. And I can't believe no one has thought of this before. This is so interesting I had to bring it up.

Everyone by now knows that Skyone will be broadcasting the RDM's Crappy Garbage in the UK in October.

With this crap airing in the UK in October, everyone will be able to download the episodes and watch them long before they ever hit the air here in America. So the question is, how many people will go out of their way to watch it here on Sci Fi, if they've already seen it off of the Internet two months prior, and can watch their downloaded versions anytime they want to?

Ratings dive anyone?

Now, if I understand it correctly, we're not supposed to be offended because you're not attacking US, you're attacking the show.

Consider a reverse scenario. What if a continuation was coming out very soon. All the original cast member, heck if you want to pretend Colicos and Green are back from the dead. The script was a colloboration of Hatch, Desanto, and Larson. Everything's perfect, but then you come across this post:

Good news everyone! Larson's crap is out on the internet! Hopefully everyone who wants to see it will have downloaded it before it comes out. It can only help our show if it goes down in flames.

Can you tell me you wouldn't be furious? The person wouldn't be attacking you, just TOS.

[amberstar]

Well you asked.........

Honestly, after all this time of crushed dreams having the rug pulled out from under us, sets torn down, the waiting,letter writing..ect.....
To come so close before and to hear we actually get a continuation after all the above... I'd be too overjoyed to really care what was said in a negative way about a continuation.


I'd just smile and say the popcorn has finally arrived in my isle

I don't mean to come off as arrogant but those are my true feelings, and knowing myself that is honestly how I'd react, I really wouldn't care what was said, I'd be on cloud 9 and nothing would be able to bring me back to Earth.

[Eric Paddon]

Agreed. Nothing any basher of TOS could say would be able to lay a finger on me at that point if a true continuation were finally a reality. What reason would I have to be bothered by someon's petty criticism when a 25 year plus dream would now be a reality?

One thing most TOS fans don't need to achieve vindication is a long-running series in TV or movie format. All we need is just *one* good live action end product that resolves the storyline in a way that can leave the door open if a continuing franchise is possible but can be a satisfactory stand-alone coda if nothing else ever happens, and then it's victory.

[amberstar]

Originally Posted by Eric Paddon

Agreed. Nothing any basher of TOS could say would be able to lay a finger on me at that point if a true continuation were finally a reality. What reason would I have to be bothered by someon's petty criticism when a 25 year plus dream would now be a reality?

One thing most TOS fans don't need to achieve vindication is a long-running series in TV or movie format. All we need is just *one* good live action end product that resolves the storyline in a way that can leave the door open if a continuing franchise is possible but can be a satisfactory stand-alone coda if nothing else ever happens, and then it's victory.

WELL SAID ERIC!!

[Eric Paddon]

Thank you, amberstar.

[amberstar]

Originally Posted by Eric Paddon

Thank you, amberstar.

[thomas7g]

I kinda would have to agree. I would laugh off the bitterness and celebrate!!!!

Watch it on the internet! Watch it on off bittorrent! Watch it off any of those file sharing programs like e-whatchamacalit! AND watch it on tv! BUT JUST WATCH IT!!!!

Buy the DVD. But the comic book. But the graphic novels. And buy the toys! Hell... i would even buy the little metal lunchbox even though I have no possible use for it!

I would be very very happy and I would just laugh at anyone being bitter about it.

[amberstar]

Can you tell me you wouldn't be furious? The person wouldn't be attacking you, just TOS.

On another note we've been through flames like that before "just attacking TOS" and took it personal..... and got burned, so to see it start again would be old hat.

Especially if it were a true continuation, the long awaited victory would be at hand. I t just wouldn't be worth the effort to get worked up over flames, because we would have finally won.

[Gemini1999]

I guess that the one thing I can identify with here is reading what detractors of either series (TOS or TNS) say on another site... Sure, it's disheartening when someone trashes something you like, but deep down, it doesn't change the way you feel about it.

I've kind of had to deal with it in one way or another most of my life when it comes to SciFi shows. When I watched Space:1999, I had to put up with comments like Star Trek is better than Space:1999. I didn't agree and liked both for different reasons. When BSG:TOS came out, people compared it to Star Wars and said that Star Wars was better, but I still found enough about each to like it in it's own right and enjoyed both.

People do it with the various Trek series and now they are doing with with both BSG series. The thing is, you can't change what people like or dislike, nor can you control what they say and what they say it about. When I surf the board over at Skiffy, I see loads of people that feel the need to trash the old to say they like the new. That's their choice - I happen to disagree with them, but that's just me.

While it's true that TNS isn't my number one choice for a new Galactica project, I'm doing the best I can to watch without comparing the two. There's stuff I like and stuff I don't, but I don't expect anyone to fall in line with what I like because of how I feel.

I guess that the one thing about fandom is that you kind of have to develop a thicker skin. There's always gonna be detractors of something that you or someone else likes. I've no doubt that if Glen Larson, Tom DeSanto, Bryan Singer or Richard Hatch had come out with their version of Galactica, there would still be people that would love it unconditionally, hate it with a passion, or fall somewhere inbetween. We would still be in the same boat, just in a different ocean...

Don't let those that don't like what you like, ruin your enjoyment of something. I definitely try not to...

Best,
Bryan

[BST]

Mustex,

Most of what I wanted to say has already been said, very eloquently, I might add by my friends before me.

The one thing that I would add is this -- when you have gone through the absolute hell that the TOS folks have endured then, you will understand that the answer to your question is that it really wouldn't make a difference if anyone detracted from our joy. We would be getting what we wanted, just as those who like Moore's version are getting what they wanted. Just as TNS folks don't let it bother them, to the point of not enjoying their show, we wouldn't let it bother us.

We'd be partying BIG TIME!! WOOO HOOOOO!


BST



"Ambrosa, for all my warriors!!"

[cranky1c]

Mustex,

Actually, no. I'm not the least bit offended by people trashing TNS. Folks are entitled to their opinions. I'll watch it. They won't. Big deal. What does anybody have to prove by defending TNS? If it's not directed at you personally, what do you care? What I'm more put off by is when otherwise decent people go tooth and claw at each other over differences about a TV show, which makes us all look like a bunch of idiots. Unfortunately, some folks on both sides take things a little too personally and treat a criticism of their favored flavor of BSG as a personal attack and respond as such. I wish it were different, but I've resigned myself to the idea that such is the nature of the (semi) public square.

I will say that the length and the scrutiny with which TNS gets knocked around becomes a little tiresome after a while, but that's my own reaction to negativity in general rather than a judgement about the impetus behind it. (I honestly have the same reaction to the TNS cheerleaders as well, a little balance - please.) I try to accept and remain respectfully disengaged from the antipathy, and try to engage folks around our common interest where there's common ground. This is supposed to be fun, after all. I find these boards become considerably less crazy-making when approached from that perspective.

[cranky1c]

I'll draw a parallel example, one you're probably familar with, Mustex. I love the original Dune books, and was very excited when word of Frank Herbert's outline to a 7th novel were going to be used to complete the series. Then came the prequels, then the Butlerian Jihad books, then who knows what. Compared to Frank Herbert, I think Brian Herbert and Kevin Anderson are as talented as two monkeys banging on a word processor with torque wrenches. All the richness and depth that was so precious to me in FH's work has been reduced to a second rate "Terminator" meets "I Robot" story. I can't really blame BH and KA for not apeing FH's style, it's just that the differences remind me of how much I savored the original, and in that respect remind me of what has been lost. It just kills me to see what they've done to a fantastic series. In this instance, I am just as mad as any TOS'r is about TNS. But I don't begrudge anyone who likes the new books. Just because I don't buy 'em and say they suck on the internet doesn't mean I think less of the people who do buy 'em. It's just differences in taste

[martok2112]

I think everyone's pretty much covered what I woulda had to say about the matter.

Well done.


Martok

[Rowan]

but no one has addressed the underlying point Mustex was trying to make....

[Senmut]

Will I be despised even more if I say I thought Dune was awful?

[thomas7g]

Originally Posted by Rowan

but no one has addressed the underlying point Mustex was trying to make....

what's that?

[cranky1c]

Originally Posted by Senmut

Will I be despised even more if I say I thought Dune was awful?

No. But it will prompt me to ask you what kind of books you do like.

[kingfish]

Maybe people wouldn't be so angry with TNS if the tactics used to get it produced weren't so abhorent. I might have liked it, really.

[Eric Paddon]

Originally Posted by Rowan

but no one has addressed the underlying point Mustex was trying to make....

I beg to differ. I gave him a straight answer to the question, and the answer was no, I wouldn't be furious under the scenario he chose to present.

[jewels]

What Kingfish just said plus a new title would've worked for me.

Mustex,
I fail to see how someone pointing out that NBC/SciFi Channel had committed modern day marketing suicide in all it's samuri glory with making the air-date schedule that they did with Sky One, is a critique of TNS at all. The BSGC poster that you quote is only stating the obvious question (to which an answer is forthcoming beginning in mid January). Will people watch the show on TV when they've already accessed it off a file sharing service?

In actuality, we will never know hard numbers. Some folks will, some won't. Nielsen households are statistically as small a sample, if not a smaller sample than the number of folks downloading in the U.S. (if I recall, there are only something like 5,000 Nielsen boxes in the U.S.) Please also consider this: Napster users were studied for their music purchasing habits and they bought more recordings than consumers that didn't file-swap. Net gain was still on the recording industry's side. The only real reason to go after Napster was to make it a service with fees going back to the industry/artists. IMO: They knew the iPod was going to turn their world upside down and make CD collections begin the path of 8-tracks and cassettes.

Because there's no central file-sharing place for movies, there's no way to get a handle on how many people view TNS prior to it's airing in the US. Indeed, Moore and Eick's letter to the Skiffy board was BRILLIANTLY timed from a PR standpoint. Just enough time for there to be a buzz about it's existence so that when the MPAA went after downloaders/sharers it would have their show mentioned in articles referring to the impact of filesharing on future ratings. Since no PR is bad in Hollywood and since the Starbuck controversy already worked in their ratings favor: this is a true PR coup. Brilliant. There wasn't actual "fear of it affecting ratings" on their third tier cable network on Moore and Eick and SciFi PR's radar--only another method of getting their show mentioned to generate more buzz.

I still want to see Bruce the Shark eat one of them in the end credits. Mwahahaha.

jewels

[martok2112]

Much of what has happened in the Galactica fan community has happened out of spite..


And unfortunately, much of that spite is geared towards fans of the opposite series...whether it is claimed otherwise or not.

Many (not all) fans who pray and shout that they hope the new series goes down in flames, knowing full well that fans of the new show would probably be upset or incensed, do so in such taunting methods. The underlying message is that the supporters/fans of TNS are THE ENEMY, because it is keeping the fires stoked for the success of the new show. Much of this is because of the pain that fans of TOS had to endure for 26 years, with promises and their subsequent withdrawals.

Many (again not all) fans comfort themselves with some divination that the new series WILL fail. And with some divination that downloading the episodes off the internet will spoil the ratings when the show hits stateside. This is also expressed as concern by the writers/producers of the new show. (So naturally, SOME TOS fans encourage this action....thinking that it will kill the ratings here.)

No one knows for sure.

This is a double edged sword. (What I am about to say is NOT...repeat...NOT offerred in disrespect to any one fanbase. Merely speculation of the furture.)

If the new series fails, then hope springs eternal for the continuation/show that the TOS traditionalists (even myself) have been hoping for. For them, the new Galactica will be a swiftly forgotten nightmare and memory. Word of the new show's demise will be a day long spoken of throughout the tumultuous history of the franchise by vindicated fans. The hardcore traditionalist fans of TOS Galactica are happy, dancing the jig...and SOME will even go insofar as to taunt fans of the new show. "HA! Your show sucked, and it bombed..and you bought into the wrong side. Now go get a clue as to what REAL science-fiction is, LOSERS!"

If the new show succeeds, and goes multiseasonal, many hardcore TOS traditonalist fans will be forced to resignation that this IS the new Galactica that fans will speak of for years to come (and regretably, and I do mean REGRETABLY in the strongest sense of the word) TOS would pass on into obscurity..kept alive only by the dwindling fans who fondly remember the beloved show (including myself). The new series fans are happy, dancing the jig..and SOME will even go insofar as to taunt the fans of the original show. "HA! Your original show is too dated and too hokey for today's audience. Go back to your mothers' basements and cry."



Now, we are asked to look at a different hypothetical scenario. This scenario comes with its own set of variables.
==================================

A continuation movie is FINALLY under production...and set to hit theatres the following year.

If the new show is still a success, and airing, then TOS fans will be rejoicing simply because now they feel that their voices have finally been heard as well, and upon release, will flock in droves to the multiplexes to gaze upon and revel in the glory of the original show's spirit on the big screen. TNS fans who are curious about the charms of the original show, and who have been even more convinced by viewings of the original series on DVD come out to see this spectacle also. Fans of both shows now KNOW that they have TWO Battlestars Galactica to enjoy. (For them, it is DEFINITELY a good time to be a Galactica fan.) There is peace throughout the land. The promised one has been delivered..and the fans are satiated.


But, let's turn this over on its uglier side:
If the new show has tanked, and is yanked off the air, especially with the announcement of an impending (and nigh unstoppable) Classic Galactica continuation on the big screen, TOS traditionalists will be rejoicing. Some Hardcore TNS fans will feel dejected, and probably not contribute one cent toward the success of the revival. (and their numbers may have been numerous) Those who enjoyed both series are split down the middle in their thoughts. On the one hand, they are getting their continuation story. One the other hand, the series they were starting to enjoy has gotten cancelled. It could become a time of ambivalence for them.

Now..let's examine this uglier side of the coin.

During the new series' run, some TOS traditionalists had actively (and aggressively) taken part in trying to bring about the series downfall. Some by word of mouth (or typewritten text on the net). They're doing this because they lack the faith that the series will fail due to its own flaws. They feel they have to do something to ensure that the flaws are fully exploited, even to those who acknowledge the flaws, but do not hold them against the new show. Some encourage this downloading phenomenon which SUPPOSEDLY will sabotage potential ratings for the new show stateside. And still some will verbally attack the TNS fandom...claiming that TNS fans are WRONG for supporting something that goes counter to a (perceived) majority. They claim that TNS fans are far less discerning about what passes for "good science fiction". Websites that are trying to promote peace and perhaps unity among the fandoms are still rife with those who refuse to see the peace...and still cast their derisions toward the fans of the new show. (It cannot be denied...it still happens). And yet, TNS fans are not supposed to feel anything. The war with the producers had been carried over into the fandom...and as long as the new show is a success, that war will never end (at least, until the old guard dies off or simply gives up.)

Okay, so the new show tanks. Taunting increases. "HA HA! We told ya!"

So now the movie goes into production. TNS fans who feel slapped in the face by the execs (and even by TOS fans) now go about with their own little agenda of sabotaging the success of the new, long awaited classic production. Some will use the usual low-brow reasoning (70's hairstyles make a comeback, fuzzy robots run rampant, and lousy acting will once again become the standard). Now, some dejected TNS fans will return the same fire they received for simply supporting something they'd come to love in as short a space of time as those who revered the original show. Now, some TNS fans start resorting to the same tactics as those crusaders of TOS who sought the boycotting/shutdown of the new show. Some will start calling the execs/actors/writers/whatnot. Some TNS fans will start spouting the same derisions toward TOS fans that some TOS fans expressed towards TNS fans.

What we fail to remember is that we are all human. Everyone has their tolerances. Eventually, the derisions will become as unwelcome as those that were cast by some TOS fans when the new show was in production. And the flame wars will begin anew.


==============================

But take comfort, all....this is only speculation.


Martok

[Gemini1999]

Originally Posted by Eric Paddon

I beg to differ. I gave him a straight answer to the question, and the answer was no, I wouldn't be furious under the scenario he chose to present.

Eric -

I would have to agree with you there... I got long winded about it, but I basically meant what someone else says or thinks about something I like has no effect.

In short, my answer would also be no...

I'd like to throw a curveball here - just for conversation's sake and to present an "other side of the coin" scenario:

What would someone that likes TNS have to say if the series isn't renewed (I'm not saying that I would wish such a thing) after the initial 13 episodes, but then a Continuation film got greenlighted instead - (Universal citing that they felt it was the most profitable/succesful way to go with the BSG storyline). I don't want answers like: "It could never happen" or anything like that. Place yourself in that moment and state how you think/feel about such a change in direction for BSG as an entertainment property.

This is all theoretical....

Best,
Bryan

[Archangel]

I'm a fan of both shows, so naturally I'd be upset if TNS was cancelled. But I'd also be happy for the movie for the simple reason that to see Apollo, the real Starbuck (even though I do like the new show, I still can't get used to Starbuck having no cajones) and the others return.

For me it would be a 50/50 feeling between joy and bitterness

[julix]

In all honesty Mustex my answer is no I would not be upset not in the least and here is why.........I would finally be getting to see my heros on the big screen back in action, a long-awaited dream to be sure. Also, I have heard every kind of taunt or critiicism there is about TOS, especially the 70's hair thing which I just don't get by the way. So, nothing new there but I would have a glourious party and celebrate!!!!!!!!The other reason is I don't let people's personal attacks or harmful words get to me about a T.V. show...now if you criticise my children you are gonna have a fight on your hands you wouldn't believe. I do try not to listen to people who I know are just trying to get a rise out of me and you should do the same........

[Rowan]

Originally Posted by thomas7g

what's that?

Ok let me elaborate… the impression I got from Mustex post was that he was asking us to "walk a mile in his shoes” a TNS fan who reads posts like the one he reposted here. Where language like “Crappy Garbage” and “crap” are used to refer to TNS by TOS fans who have not even seen the show but hate it and continually express their hate towards the show simply because it exists.

Yes I know there is a long and huge history here (BSG fandom) of the reverse taking place (TOS being dumped on by TNS fans) that perhaps Mustex has not personally lived through. He is 18 years old remember? He has not lived what we have lived… until now, this is his first introduction to this kind of experience and he is exploring it. He’s trying to understand this kind of response, and asking us to understand how he’s feeling.

He explains that he does have feelings of hurt on some level about TNS being referred to in this way but he understands from us that he is not supposed to take it personally, but he is struggling with this concept.

He offers a scenario for us to consider and how we would feel if the tables were turned. Everyone responded to the scenario instead of the underlying feelings being expressed and the quest for understanding that is expressed in his post.

That’s all I meant.

[Eric Paddon]

"Ok let me elaborate… the impression I got from Mustex post was that he was asking us to "walk a mile in his shoes” a TNS fan who reads posts like the one he reposted here.
He explains that he does have feelings of hurt on some level about TNS being referred to in this way but he understands from us that he is not supposed to take it personally, but he is struggling with this concept."

I don't see in fact what there is to struggle with, unless someone were to say something like "That says a lot about yourself if you can actually like a show like that" (which is the mildest example I can think of to cite for purposes of an example). A discussion forum that encompasses a wide range of miuntiae within the universe of Battlestar Galactica has always carried this element of people who like some things and not others. Some people like the Terra trilogy episodes of TOS and I think they're the worst of the series, but I haven't seen people who like them feel like they've been attacked personally because those episodes have been criticized. Same thing is true with people who actually liked "Galactica 1980" (yes, there are really people who feel that way). To me, I have a hard time understanding why that distinction that's been easily understood in the past as applied to a host of other examples is suddenly difficult to grasp when it comes to TNS.

"He offers a scenario for us to consider and how we would feel if the tables were turned. Everyone responded to the scenario instead of the underlying feelings being expressed and the quest for understanding that is expressed in his post."

Responding to the scenario was what we were asked to do, and I didn't see anything else being asked of us. A simple question required only a simple answer: No.

[martok2112]

There was a time when peoples' moral values were questioned if they favored the new show one iota. I'd say that makes a pretty big impact on how one fandom perceives another.

Martok

[Dawg]

Would I be offended under the scenario Mustex suggests?

No.

You know why?

I've been through that very scenario, and on more than one occassion. So has every TOS fan who has been on these boards for longer than a year.

A very brief history lesson from your Uncle Dawg:

During the DeSanto days, information about what was going on was sparse - a rare dribble of information would occassionally spark much discussion and speculation on the boards - some good, some bad. As it turns out, some of the information (and its disseminators) were not what they appeared to be. But there was much debate (and not all of it pleasant between fans). Sound familiar?

About the time I showed up, the Hydra of Hammer/Eick/Moore was in place, DeSanto unceremoniously kicked to the sidelines, and the draft Moore script had been leaked. The fans were up in arms, since the script displayed nothing of what the fans had expected a production of "Battlestar Galactica" to be. And, countering the uproar was a group of fans who alternately pled "give it a chance" and poked and prodded TOS fans into anger.

We now know who 90% of those fans were, and he had a single name.

But much of the poking and prodding was the basic scenario Mustex proposes, magnafied: TOS was crap, you're stuck in the 70's, you want disco hair.... Magnafied because he/they personalized it, not leaving it to a condemnation of the show itself but making the attacks personal.

Well, time has passed. We've discovered and learned to recognize the trolling tactics, and learned to tell the difference between a troll and a more honest, enthusiastic fan - and most of us won't rise to the bait.

We will try to instill basic etiquette, however.

So no, Mustex, I wouldn't get worked up about a statement like that. But if you keep at it - time and time again, in an effort to provoke a negative response - you'll likely get one. Even I'm human and have limits to my patience.

Fortunately, though, the members here tend to show a degree of respect that was missing a year and more ago. But I'd still say some need to take a step back and learn from our experience, and remember that even if it's worded along the lines of "this show is crap", it is still personal opinion about a TV show. It's "you're full of crap" that crosses the line.

It bears remembering.

I am
Dawg

[Rowan]

Mustex I can't really answer your question directly. I have never participated in that kind of posting, mainly because I didn’t grow up with the internet so I look at posters as real people and consequently talk to them as I would if we were standing together in person. I was brought up to always consider the feelings of others and where it comes down to personal preference that it's just a matter of opinion and no ones opinion is of less value than my own. If I dislike a TV show and someone I know likes that TV show then I might say I'm not a fan of it but I don't drill that into them because manners dictate that would be rude and it doesn't pass the 3 golden gates I was taught to follow growing up. The first gate is: is it true? The second gate: Is it necessary? And the third gate: is it kind? If it passes all three then it’s ok to say it. Or the Golden rule: do onto others as you would have them do onto you. I don’t usually get into trouble in life if I follow that.

It is hard sometimes to not take those kind of remarks personally because when you like something like a TV show you want it to continue you have a vested interest in seeing it continue because it brings you pleasure. It is hard when someone criticizes something you like because you feel like your taste is being called into question. The thing to remember is that they are just expressing their preference. That how they feel about it might be different than you but it doesn’t mean your feelings don’t count or aren’t of equal value. When you are friends or friendly with someone it’s far more fun if you can share your enjoyment of a show. It’s disappointing when you can’t especially when you wish you could talk about it with them. So it’s hard when they not only don’t want to talk about it but actually put it down.

With regards to the constant negative posting by some TOS fans what they are expressing with that kind of post is their hurt feelings and not about anything else and to remember and understand that. This new BSG represents/symbolizes everything that was lost, dreams of a continuation so close to fruition and then snatched away in the 11th hour and everything hurtful like the comments made by RDM and certain cast members towards the TOS fans.

Everybody deals with pain and anger differently and everyone heals at a different pace, when you understand where this is coming from is when you can begin to let go of your feelings of hurt about that kind of posting. I know sometimes it will be hard to be patient and understanding and you will feel tested but just keep trying to come back to that place and if you feel tempted to post in retaliation then walk away from the computer take a brake till you are in a better place.

There are exceptions to the rules of course. There will be people out there who just post like this to be deliberately hurtful; you have to look at many posts sometimes in order to tell who is who. Other things to consider too are that not everyone is sober or clean when they post. Sometimes too people are going through a rough patch in their personal lives and this can affect the way they post and for others they might suffer from psychological problems like delusional disorder (which I believe is the case for Lang)

I choose not to respond negatively back to any kind of posting like that because the only result with that kind of response is an escalation and nothing positive is ever accomplished.

Sometimes you have to look beyond the words to the underlying emotions as I’ve attempted to do with your post.

(((((((((((((((((((Mustex))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

[Mustex]

Originally Posted by cranky1c

I'll draw a parallel example, one you're probably familar with, Mustex. I love the original Dune books, and was very excited when word of Frank Herbert's outline to a 7th novel were going to be used to complete the series. Then came the prequels, then the Butlerian Jihad books, then who knows what. Compared to Frank Herbert, I think Brian Herbert and Kevin Anderson are as talented as two monkeys banging on a word processor with torque wrenches. All the richness and depth that was so precious to me in FH's work has been reduced to a second rate "Terminator" meets "I Robot" story. I can't really blame BH and KA for not apeing FH's style, it's just that the differences remind me of how much I savored the original, and in that respect remind me of what has been lost. It just kills me to see what they've done to a fantastic series. In this instance, I am just as mad as any TOS'r is about TNS. But I don't begrudge anyone who likes the new books. Just because I don't buy 'em and say they suck on the internet doesn't mean I think less of the people who do buy 'em. It's just differences in taste

I couldn't help but respond to this with my own opinion of what should have been done with the notes:

Brian Herbert: Take several years to at least get some sample of the depth worked up on book seven, and then a few more on book eight. Then you can CONSIDER the prequels.

Kevin J. Anderson: I'm glad to see working on Dune improved you, but your place is writing "Saga of the Seven Suns." You should drop all other projects. If you can make them that good in a year while sharing time with other projects, then if you give them you full attention they'll be masterpieces.