Go Back   Colonial Fleets > BATTLESTAR GALACTICA DISCUSSION AREA > The Last Battlestar......Galactica!
Notices
The Last Battlestar......Galactica! For discussions about the ORIGINAL series
What Dreams May Come!

Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old March 4th, 2004, 09:48 AM   #1
Count Iblis
Shuttle Pilot
 
Count Iblis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Sacramento CA.
Posts: 28

Default Bringing Back TOS Into Mini?

Hi folks....You know since recording and reviewing the new mini-series Pilot episodes I have given a lot of thought about the idea of bringing TOS links of past characters/storylines etc. It's really been an issue that's bugged me, and frankly been tugging at the heart strings of this long time fan.

On the one hand I thought "Wow....It would be really cool to bring back the Pegasus, commander Cain, Sheba, and other elements which TOS fans, like myself could welcome and relate too.

Then on the other hand I thought....."What about Loyalty to TOS ideas that seem to have been ignored in the new series?" Maybe since the mini took such liberty with already established characters and original ideas it should "Stand On It's Own"

Yep.....I know it's only a TV show for pete's sake, but I wondering how others are seeing this? I have read about fans wanting to see the "Pegasus" return and such, but is that a realistic/plausable idea with the direction the new series has taken? There are lot's of practical reasons....fictional time line difference being one, that makes some of this less plausable.

Then.....How many of the old Charactrs even want to be on the new show? From what I've read recently, it dosen't seem most could care less either way?? There is no wrong answer here. I'm honestly seeking some varied view points to better help me to be more "Objective" about reasons to bring back TOS stuff for the new mini. ALL THOUGHTS APPRECIATED. Cheers!

"Ive gone over the edge.......Darn Lemmings!
Count Iblis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 4th, 2004, 10:28 AM   #2
Dawg
Great Wise Guru
 
Dawg's Avatar
 
COMMAND INSIGNIAAdmin
ColonialFleets.com
SPECIAL ACHIEVEMENT AWARDCo-Owner
TombsofKobol.com
Owner/Webmaster
DirkBenedictCentral.com
Colonial Fan ForceCo-Founder
Colonial Fan Force

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Pacific Northwest, USA
Posts: 5,009


Default

It is my personal view that it can't be done. There is so much different in the RDM universe that to try to plug in "accurate" TOS elements would make no sense at all in the storytelling or execution.

I expect we will see a Pegasus and a Cain as the new series progresses, but I doubt they would be comparable to the TOS counterparts.

I am
Dawg
__________________
"...I aim to misbehave." Capt. Malcolm Reynolds, Serenity.

My Places:

DirkBenedictCentral.com, Facebook: Dirk Benedict Central Twitter: @DBCdotCOM Dirk's appearances: Appearances

Tombs of Kobol
Dawg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 4th, 2004, 10:53 AM   #3
Boomer65
Shuttle Pilot
 
Boomer65's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 57

Default

Quote:
How many of the old Charactrs even want to be on the new show? From what I've read recently, it dosen't seem most could care less either way??
Most of the stuff I’ve read seems to suggest that the majority of the characters don’t want any part of the new BSG. However, let’s remember that none of these actors are on Hollywood’s “A” list and most of them are pushing 50 (not exactly prime in Hollywood years). There might be a few out there that might be interested in a cameo or two just to get back on screen “one more time”. I think a lot of it depends on what kind of role they’re offered.

And I agree with Dawg, they can’t incorporate TOS into the mini. Maybe having Benedict play a retired pilot who counsels safe flying and preaches high moral standards (anyone see Heston’s cameo in the Planet of the Apes remake?) something similar but that’s about it. The two are in two distinctly different universes.
Boomer65 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 4th, 2004, 01:55 PM   #4
Antelope
Guest
 
Antelope's Avatar
 
Posts: n/a

Default

You can look at the mini two ways:

The way I look at it is that it is an alternate history based on the fact the armistice in Saga of A Star World was real. As such all the characters in the mini are in no way related to the ones in TOS unless in the case of the ones with the same last names they are their descendants or distant relatives. The TOS "armistice" is 40 years in Moore's universe's past. As such all the TOS characters are either dead or retired at the time the mini started. Even Boxey would be about 50 and no longer in colonial service more than likely, assumming he ever followed a military path. As such any name relation is mere coincidence. They are not TOS characters.

The other way you can look at the show is that Moore intentional is making the characters (not names) coincide with how TOS season 1 ended. The names were changed in order to not bring about false expectations for the characters. As such TOS characters may come back into the mini if they are not already there. Be aware however that the names of the characters don't always match with TOS. Here is my mini character = TOS character score card.

William Adama = Commander Adama
COL Tigh = COL Tigh
Lee Adama = Apollo
Kara Thrace = Sheba
President Roslin = Siress Tinia
CPO Tyrol = Starbuck
Boomer = Athena
Callie = Cassiopeia
Duella = Rigel
Roslin's Secretary = Boomer
Boxey = Boxey
CIC Ops Officer = CIC Ops Officer
Baltar = Baltar
Cylon 6 = Lucifer

The characters of COL Tigh, Siress Tinia, Boomer, Rigel, the CIC Ops Officer (forgot his name) and Lucifer were all marginally developed in TOS. At this point Moore has a free hand to develope these characters.

The fully developed main characters have been altered enough that most viewers won't be held hostage to preconceived stereotypes in the new series.

Who are we missing that would come along? A Serena character can't come along because the Sheba character is already on board (that's not to say an unrelated character NAMED Serena won't she up). A Bojay character can't come along because Sheba is already with Apollo. Boxey has to be with the Athena character (mini Boomer) because he would interfere with the TOS Apollo-Sheba storyline. If you watch TOS, Boxey was already being cared for by an increasingly non-scripted Athena. Since Boxey serves no long term purpose in either TOS or the mini watch for him to be revealed as a human-cylon or killed at some point. The only character I expect to come about from TOS we don't see now is Commander Caine. I would not be surprised that when that episode occurs it turns out that Caine's last name is Thrace and Kara is his daughter. In a perfect world Dirk Benedict would be a perfect person for the role. It would bring the Starbuck argument full circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old March 4th, 2004, 02:28 PM   #5
Dawg
Great Wise Guru
 
Dawg's Avatar
 
COMMAND INSIGNIAAdmin
ColonialFleets.com
SPECIAL ACHIEVEMENT AWARDCo-Owner
TombsofKobol.com
Owner/Webmaster
DirkBenedictCentral.com
Colonial Fan ForceCo-Founder
Colonial Fan Force

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Pacific Northwest, USA
Posts: 5,009


Default

Cheez, antelope, from the perspective of this TOS fan, you're really reaching for links between the two. I keep telling you it can't be done since none of the characters match up at all.

But you're obviously having a ball with it, so go for it, my friend.

Have you considered writing a fanfic? Some of this would lend itself to that very application, since there's no way RDM is ever going to link TOS with his universe during the series.

If you do, e-mail it to BST or me (check out the how-tos in the Colonial Library) and we'll post it for all to read.



I am
Dawg
__________________
"...I aim to misbehave." Capt. Malcolm Reynolds, Serenity.

My Places:

DirkBenedictCentral.com, Facebook: Dirk Benedict Central Twitter: @DBCdotCOM Dirk's appearances: Appearances

Tombs of Kobol
Dawg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 4th, 2004, 02:29 PM   #6
jewels
Stablemaster, Livery Ship
 
jewels's Avatar
 


FORUM STAFFFleet Modertor
Colonial Fleets

Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Wandering Indiana
Posts: 5,101


Default

I'm thinking that the two don't mix. You can only swipe some names and maybe a bit of storyline but the character of the characters just doesn't suit. IMO: if you brought in Cain as Lloyd Bridges handled the character, as the character was known as a "Living Legend" to all of the colonies--Husker would lose command of the fleet because the President would go for the stronger of the 2 commanders.

My second thought is I wouldn't depend on seeing the Pegasus as part of the new universe at all. If Glen really does out-and-out own Pegasus, Cain, Sheba, Tolen and Bojay as his own creation, I believe he would make it outrageously expensive for Universal to use their characters or ships. And if he couldn't make it expensive one way he'd haul their butts to court and throw their budget out another way.

Antelope: Sheba is not Kara. Kara has way too big a chip on her shoulder to ever think to fill that warrior's cockpit.

Also Dirk's stated his opinion of Moore's creation. Don't hold your breath.
__________________
"We feel free when we escape – even if it be but from the frying pan to the fire." Mozzie on White Collar

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one." Malcolm Reynolds [/color]

"We don't dictate to countries, we liberate countries." Mitt Romney [/color]
jewels is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 4th, 2004, 02:38 PM   #7
Boomer65
Shuttle Pilot
 
Boomer65's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 57

Default

Quote:
The TOS "armistice" is 40 years in Moore's universe's past. As such all the TOS characters are either dead or retired at the time the mini started. Even Boxey would be about 50 and no longer in colonial service more than likely, assumming he ever followed a military path. As such any name relation is mere coincidence. They are not TOS characters.
Interesting. A lot of coincidences to overcome here. I suppose it’s possible that TOS names were converted to callsigns and every generation of Gallactica has a Starbuck, Adama, Apollo, Boomer, et al by tradition. That the “true” origins of the Cylons were lost or deliberately disguised. That weaponry took a leap backward. That, coincidentally, mini-Baltar also betrayed his people. Whew – that’s a huuuuuuuuuggggeeeee stretch.

Quote:
CPO Tyrol = Starbuck
Curious – why?
Boomer65 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 4th, 2004, 03:27 PM   #8
Antelope
Guest
 
Antelope's Avatar
 
Posts: n/a

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomer65
Interesting. A lot of coincidences to overcome here. I suppose it’s possible that TOS names were converted to callsigns and every generation of Gallactica has a Starbuck, Adama, Apollo, Boomer, et al by tradition. That the “true” origins of the Cylons were lost or deliberately disguised. That weaponry took a leap backward. That, coincidentally, mini-Baltar also betrayed his people. Whew – that’s a huuuuuuuuuggggeeeee stretch.


Curious – why?
Alternate History: I am not saying an exact correlation. I am assumming for example that in Moore's universe his version of how the cylons came to be is valid (although I like TOS's cylon history better). Since the origin of the cylon/human conflict in TOS has only a couple lines it doesn't bother me about the real origin. I assume that all colonials have first and last names. Somethings from TOS are cool and make it exotic like the no last names but really have no bearing on the stories. I assume in a remake whether they called them bullets or plasma balls they are the same thing. I look at it as just some modern jazzed up special effects. In an alternate history the TOS Baltar never betrayed his people. There was an armistice! For all we know the TOS Baltar would have the equivalent of the colonial nobel peace prize and be an honored man in Moore's universe who has long since died. Again mini Baltar may or may not be a relation of TOS Baltar. (I served as an Officer in the 82nd Airborne. A General with my last name commanded the division at a point in the 1950s. He has a room named after him at the Fort Bragg Officers club. I am no relation but many people assumed he was my Grandfather because we had the same name and both of us were officers and paratroopers!)

On the Tyrol = Starbuck.

I guarantee nothing but if as I believe (hope) Moore is following the 1980 Larson advice that he wished he could have moved TOS to a later night slot for more mature audiences and that Moore is looking to do inside stories than Tyrol is his Starbuck. In the cut scene prior to the Tyrol/Boomer lust scene we are told that Callie expresses displeasure at the Tyrol/Boomer affair. I think one of the best inside storylines in TOS was the Starbuck/Athena/Cassiopeia love triangle. In an adult (as opposed to family) version this is too good of a story line to throw away. Tyrol will get the role of Starbuck torn between two women. Boomer is the dark haired beauty in the role of Athena, Tyrol's (Starbucks) first love on the ship. Boomer also gets the look after Boxey role Athena had in the later TOS episodes. Callie will be the blond beauty of Cassie who will end of creating the conflict between Tyrol (Starbuck) and Boomer (Athena). Cassie in TOS started as a socialator but rapidly needed to be given a military role to keep her relavent. By putting Callie in the military from the start Moore avoids that disjoint.

Dawg: I'll put you in the alternate reality column. I know the TOS season 2 is a bit of a stretch for your credibity. If it turned out that is Moore's goal however just for supposition, wouldn't that be a good thing for Battlestar Galactica?
  Reply With Quote
Old March 4th, 2004, 04:00 PM   #9
Dawg
Great Wise Guru
 
Dawg's Avatar
 
COMMAND INSIGNIAAdmin
ColonialFleets.com
SPECIAL ACHIEVEMENT AWARDCo-Owner
TombsofKobol.com
Owner/Webmaster
DirkBenedictCentral.com
Colonial Fan ForceCo-Founder
Colonial Fan Force

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Pacific Northwest, USA
Posts: 5,009


Default

Actually, I wish Larson & Co. had been allowed to do as they liked for G80. Unfortunately, ABC put so many restrictions on them that the show was doomed from the get-go.

Your question hinges on my acceptance of the RDM universe as "Battlestar Galactica", antelope. I don't. Therefore, RDM's goals are RDM's goals and have no bearing, to me, anyway, on what Larson would or wouldn't have done.

Sorry.

I am
Dawg
__________________
"...I aim to misbehave." Capt. Malcolm Reynolds, Serenity.

My Places:

DirkBenedictCentral.com, Facebook: Dirk Benedict Central Twitter: @DBCdotCOM Dirk's appearances: Appearances

Tombs of Kobol
Dawg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 4th, 2004, 04:06 PM   #10
shiningstar
Bad Email Address
 
shiningstar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 12,939


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg
It is my personal view that it can't be done. There is so much different in the RDM universe that to try to plug in "accurate" TOS elements would make no sense at all in the storytelling or execution.

I expect we will see a Pegasus and a Cain as the new series progresses, but I doubt they would be comparable to the TOS counterparts.

I am
Dawg
I agree with you 100% that NOW there is no way that the two 'universes'
(tos and MINI) can MIX and SUCCEED.
shiningstar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 4th, 2004, 04:08 PM   #11
shiningstar
Bad Email Address
 
shiningstar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 12,939


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg
Actually, I wish Larson & Co. had been allowed to do as they liked for G80. Unfortunately, ABC put so many restrictions on them that the show was doomed from the get-go.

Your question hinges on my acceptance of the RDM universe as "Battlestar Galactica", antelope. I don't. Therefore, RDM's goals are RDM's goals and have no bearing, to me, anyway, on what Larson would or wouldn't have done.

Sorry.

I am
Dawg
That's true ......Larson didn't kill bsg80 ...............the studio and the network
did

I do not accept the RDM universe ........................and never WILL
shiningstar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 4th, 2004, 04:56 PM   #12
Antelope
Guest
 
Antelope's Avatar
 
Posts: n/a

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg
Actually, I wish Larson & Co. had been allowed to do as they liked for G80. Unfortunately, ABC put so many restrictions on them that the show was doomed from the get-go.


I am
Dawg
I am with you 100%!

From what I read about Larson's real goals for BSG1980 we would have all been happy. The TOS storyline and universe would have been intact. We would have had the more mature storyline I think they needed to keep the show going. ABC did doom the show. Personally I think Moore could have copied Larson's universe in it's entirety and introduced the human-cylons.

He had no choice but to remake "Saga of A Star World" to prove the franchise was still viable. I would have redid "Saga of A Star World"as is until the Caprica scene. Realistically Adama could not go down to Caprica and wage a war. Let Boomer (the real TOS version) end of there in a hurt ship. Do the FLT jump to Ragnar instead of the Carillon scenes. Give Baltar (the TOS version) a female human-cylon assistant just to introduce the concept in the remake. Let the cylons kill Baltar as originally planned and leave an unknown human-cylon (Baltar's assistant?)in the Galactica. Start the new series without Boxey and Serena and move on like TOS season 1 ended yesterday.

Make the second new episode a remake of the Pegasus episodes so we get Sheba on board and all is in its proper order.
  Reply With Quote
Old March 4th, 2004, 05:00 PM   #13
Boomer65
Shuttle Pilot
 
Boomer65's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 57

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by antelope526
Alternate History: I am not saying an exact correlation.
Forgive my slow brain but I still don’t understand. Let’s take the X-men movie. It is largely based on the X-men comic book universe but does not “fit” in said universe’s timeline. Ex. Wolverine and Rogue did not discover Xavier together. Yes it has all the characters and they closely match those of the comic’s but, again, you can’t say that the movie is part of the comic universe.

Now we have the Star Trek movies (orig or Next Gen). Those movies do, for the most part, fit into their tv counterpart’s universe. To me the Xmen example is a movie “based” on the comics. The ST ex. is one where the movie is “set in” the tv universe. I guess I’m just not seeing how the TOS timeline can fit into the Mini’s without some serious stretches of the imagination. Can you give me an example of what you’re talking about?
Boomer65 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 4th, 2004, 05:01 PM   #14
shiningstar
Bad Email Address
 
shiningstar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 12,939


Default

I KNOW that the Larson/desanto BSG will be made.

I believe it can be ..............and I know if it's made for the movie theater
it will succeed.

It's just a matter of 'when'.
shiningstar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 4th, 2004, 05:05 PM   #15
shiningstar
Bad Email Address
 
shiningstar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 12,939


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomer65
Forgive my slow brain but I still don’t understand. Let’s take the X-men movie. It is largely based on the X-men comic book universe but does not “fit” in said universe’s timeline. Ex. Wolverine and Rogue did not discover Xavier together. Yes it has all the characters and they closely match those of the comic’s but, again, you can’t say that the movie is part of the comic universe.

Now we have the Star Trek movies (orig or Next Gen). Those movies do, for the most part, fit into their tv counterpart’s universe. To me the Xmen example is a movie “based” on the comics. The ST ex. is one where the movie is “set in” the tv universe. I guess I’m just not seeing how the TOS timeline can fit into the Mini’s without some serious stretches of the imagination. Can you give me an example of what you’re talking about?
In DEFENSE of ANTELOPE .............he said "I am not saying an exact Correllation."

The Xman while they are not an EXACT CORRELLATION of the original still
fit within the ORIGINAL XMAN universe.
shiningstar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 4th, 2004, 05:16 PM   #16
BST
Snowball, My Angel Baby
 
BST's Avatar
 
COMMAND INSIGNIAAdmin
Colonial Fleets

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Somewhere across the heavens... aka Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 9,188


Default

Hmm, this is an interesting question - "Bringing back TOS into the Mini?".

A certain starship captain, from "another universe" once said, "I'd like to think that there are always possibilities." Perhaps there is but, it would be a stttrrreeetttccchhh. What I'll be referring to will be in terms of 'concept' and more than likely, improbable, in the 'real world' since it would require a fair amount of concessions from Ron Moore. (I'll be referring to the mini-series as 'RDM show', only for clarity of thought - please do not interpret this reference as insulting because it's not intended to be).


Here's the thought:
  • 1. Consider TOS the template and the events from TOS to be canon, for the show, overall.
  • 2. Consider the events in the RDM show to be set in a time period approximately 20-25 years after the TOS Hand of God episode.
  • 3. The inhabitants of the RDM show's universe could be remnants of the 13th tribe (from TOS) that broke away and established their own homeworlds, in some area of the galaxy between the TOS Colonies and Earth. They could be close enough, to the TOS Colonies, to have picked up news on the Thousand Yahren war and realizing, possibly from historical artifacts, records, etc, that they are 'related' to the Colonials. Though they had their own society, they were impressed with the Colonials' bravery and tenacity and honored them by such things as 'call signs', ship names, etc.
  • 4. The inhabitants of the RDM show's universe were immersed in their own crisis, i.e., war and similar events (to that in TOS) happened to them. They had to take to the stars, much like their Colonial counterparts, to escape annhiliation.
  • 5. Introduce the TOS Galactica, with original characters, taking into account 20-25 years aging. After a period of time, join forces to 1) continue the journey to Earth; or 2) confront their combined enemies in an effort to regain their respective homeworlds.

These are only some 'high-level' thoughts and there are bound to be some 'holes' in this reasoning. However, it is my feeble effort to construct a bridge, wobbly or not, between the 2 shows.

__________________
Lay down
Your sweet and weary head
The night is falling
You have come to journey's end
Sleep now
And dream of the ones who came before
They are calling
From across the distant shore .


Children are a message that we send
to a time that we will never see.
BST is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 4th, 2004, 05:39 PM   #17
Boomer65
Shuttle Pilot
 
Boomer65's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 57

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shiningstar
The Xman while they are not an EXACT CORRELLATION of the original still
fit within the ORIGINAL XMAN universe.
Not true! At least not by my definition. To me, for it to “fit” within the original xmen universe then the origins must be the same, the sequence of events must be the same, everything! Basically, you could take the movie and put it into a comic and it would fit into the series’ timeline seamlessly. Or you could mention an occurrence in the movie in the comic – you can’t in this case. Wolverine joined long before Rogue in the comic but in the movie they joined together, Bobby “The Iceman” was an X-men before Wolverine – and so on and so on.

Let me put it this way – the X-men movie “fits” about as well as the Spiderman, Hulk, and BSG Mini. Sure they could be made to fit but it'd be a stretch - although not as long as BST's.

BST - there're a heckava lot of coincidences in your scenario but you've proven once again that anything can be "made" to fit. I blame Dallas.
Boomer65 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 4th, 2004, 06:08 PM   #18
Antelope
Guest
 
Antelope's Avatar
 
Posts: n/a

Default

On Star Trek TNG there is an episode where Picard is the Captain of a warship not ship of exploration. An old Enterprise comes through a time portal. Picard sends it back with some repairs and a new tactical officer. The old Enterprise changes history by supporting some Klingons at Kittamer. As a result the time line was changed. Kittamer was a focal point in history. You could make an entire series if you wanted based on a timeline where the Kittamar story never happened.

In Battlestar Galactica the armistice is the focal point. If the armistice is a ruse you have TOS. If it is real you have Moore's universe. The events in Moore's mini take place 40 years after the events of "Saga of A Star World" in an alternate history where the armistice was real.

You may need to suspend some belief but it can put your mind at peace. Therefor the mini need not replace TOS. It simply says... What if?

Don't get hung up on the origin of the cylons. Human-cylons could be introduced in either version. In addition using the Star Trek analogy again, in Star Trek TOS the Klingons were obviously a different human race where in TNG the are a separate species.

Also I could point out some major continuity error between Star Trek TOS, Star Trek TNG, the Star Trek TOS movie "Undiscovered Country" and the Star Trek TNG movie "First Contact" but they would all make the point that you can fit a general concept into a general world if you don't get hung up on the details.
  Reply With Quote
Old March 4th, 2004, 06:36 PM   #19
Boomer65
Shuttle Pilot
 
Boomer65's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 57

Default

Quote:
You may need to suspend some belief but it can put your mind at peace. Therefor the mini need not replace TOS. It simply says... What if?
I think I see what you’re saying here but…suppose we pursue a What If where Kennedy was not assassinated and we didn’t go to Vietnam. That scenario can stand on its own but can’t be tied to our Kennedy was assassinated universe. That’s what I’m talking about here – BSG03 can’t be made to fit into the TOS timeline without a huge stretch.

Quote:
In addition using the Star Trek analogy again, in Star Trek TOS the Klingons were obviously a different human race where in TNG the are a separate species.
Huh? I don’t think this is correct – they were supposed to be a different species in ST-TOS too weren’t they? Just like Vulcans and those other pointy eared people.

Quote:
Also I could point out some major continuity error between Star Trek TOS, Star Trek TNG, the Star Trek TOS movie "Undiscovered Country" and the Star Trek TNG movie "First Contact" but they would all make the point that you can fit a general concept into a general world if you don't get hung up on the details.
Oh I’m sure there were plenty of continuity errors however, I’m sure that they were relatively minor. The movies “generally” fit well into their respective series timelines AND they had the bonus of using the same cast members. BSG TOS and BSG03 don’t fit well at all. You’d have to come up with a far-fetched scenario that BST generated. You basically have a series that is “based on” TOS rather than a series that is “part of” TOS universe.

I think my "based on TOS universe" is what you're calling "alternate universe."
Boomer65 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 5th, 2004, 11:37 AM   #20
Antelope
Guest
 
Antelope's Avatar
 
Posts: n/a

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomer65
I think I see what you’re saying here but…suppose we pursue a What If where Kennedy was not assassinated and we didn’t go to Vietnam. That scenario can stand on its own but can’t be tied to our Kennedy was assassinated universe. That’s what I’m talking about here – BSG03 can’t be made to fit into the TOS timeline without a huge stretch.


Huh? I don’t think this is correct – they were supposed to be a different species in ST-TOS too weren’t they? Just like Vulcans and those other pointy eared people.


Oh I’m sure there were plenty of continuity errors however, I’m sure that they were relatively minor. The movies “generally” fit well into their respective series timelines AND they had the bonus of using the same cast members. BSG TOS and BSG03 don’t fit well at all. You’d have to come up with a far-fetched scenario that BST generated. You basically have a series that is “based on” TOS rather than a series that is “part of” TOS universe.

I think my "based on TOS universe" is what you're calling "alternate universe."
I think we are on the same page and saying a similar thing. I do not think you can or should connect TOS to the mini. To me the break in the Galactica mythos (alternate history/future) is at the start point of "Saga as a Star World". As such they are like two branches coming off the same tree.

My Star Trek analogy on the species is a bit rough. In Star Trek TOS all the humanoid aliens are the same species. All their differences are racial and superficial and they can interbreed (creatures are the same species if they can interbreed and their offspring is not sterile). Unfortunately in Star Trek TNG they butchered the whole species/race situation. There are many episodes where they explain that the various humanoids are so far apart medically that in no way could they be considerd the same species. On the other hand they still have them interbreeding which would be medically impossible. Of course TNG supports normal human evolution in some episodes like in one of the Q episode while in another episode they show that all humanoids are the descendants of an ancient mother race not evolved on Earth. The Star Trek TOS movie: Undiscovered Country does not fit into the Star Trek universe of TNG. It destroyes the Kittamer peace story of TNG and has a major continuity error with the future Worf character.
  Reply With Quote
Old March 6th, 2004, 03:33 AM   #21
Lusitan
Guest
 
Lusitan's Avatar
 
Posts: n/a

Default

I still like that idea someone had one (can't remember who) that these people's original world was Terra. I think one could link the new BSG to TOS this way, but it would be set (alot) more than 25 years after TOS episodes, so no TOS characters in it.
The names and all are homage to those that once stoped the war that would have destroyed Terra. What they know about earth is what they learned from the colonials. That's also why some think Earth doesn't exist.
The funny part for me is the origin of the name Cylon. The robots these people had were first called HecVecs . This name was also the name of the company that first created these kind of robots, HecVec Inc.
Years later, when the rebelion started, someone, let's say in the press, started to call them cylons, remembering from somewere that was the name of some old mechanical enemy. And everyone picked that name for their enemy.
Now, what happened to these Cylons during the last 40 years? How did they evolved so fast? BECAUSE....[suspence]...they found TOS Cylons, who are still fighting the descendants of the colonials that did find earth and were not aware of the existence of the terrans, until now .
So, we now know of the existence of TOS cylons, but we don't know yet that the colonials exist and they're still figting the cylons with help from earth, and wining, because that is hapening somewere far away.

What do you guys think?
  Reply With Quote
Old March 6th, 2004, 10:33 AM   #22
Westy
Warrior
 
Westy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Weymouth, MA, USA
Posts: 243

Default

You gotta keep 'em seperated! RDM didn't choose to do a continuation, he's doing his own take on BSG, as such, why would you want to change TOS? TOS is fine as is, and I'd hate to see it changed to conform to the new mini, or vice versa. If it happens (i.e. the mini morphs into TOS or whatever) I think that would screw up a chance for a real TOS continuation. I hope they don't do any of this. Cameos of the TOS actors would be a nice way to pay tribute to TOS and all that the TOS actors did, but beyond that, don't screw with TOS.
Westy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 6th, 2004, 10:44 AM   #23
BST
Snowball, My Angel Baby
 
BST's Avatar
 
COMMAND INSIGNIAAdmin
Colonial Fleets

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Somewhere across the heavens... aka Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 9,188


Default

Westy,

I wholeheartedly agree with you (except the part about the original actors doing cameos - I'd prefer that NONE of them become involved in the new show. Keep the shows AND actors separate). My 'ideas', above, were an attempt to show those who enjoy Moore's retelling of BSG, that my wish for a continuation of the Original Series does not have to come at the expense of completely scuttling Moore's work.

Even though I, personally, have a distaste for Moore's re-telling of BSG, I won't let that cloud my thoughts when trying to think of ways for both 'universes' to co-exist.



BST
__________________
Lay down
Your sweet and weary head
The night is falling
You have come to journey's end
Sleep now
And dream of the ones who came before
They are calling
From across the distant shore .


Children are a message that we send
to a time that we will never see.
BST is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 6th, 2004, 10:55 AM   #24
Antelope
Guest
 
Antelope's Avatar
 
Posts: n/a

Default

Lusitan, I like the premise but since the original cylons and their war machines in the Moore universe are identical to the original TOS cylons I don't think I could ever get past the impossibility of the odds against an exact match.

Although I am very much reaching and don't support this concept here is an idea:

Moore's universe is set in a very distant future. The Cylon empire eventually had a massive Civil War that destroyed their entire civilization. The Moore colonials are the descendants of a surviving slave labor force on the original 12 colonies. After thousands of years they rebuilt their society and are once again a space faring race. They retain some knowledge of their original religion and it has blended into a small knowledge of their real history. As they became advanced technologically they were able to find and download some military schematics from archeological digs. As such they had the data on original colonial and cylon military systems. Assumming that they were all part of their ancestors military they reproduced the colonial warships, fighters, basestars, and cylons not knowing that the cylons were an enemy. They assummed cylons were a human made war machine. Prior to the reuniting of the 12 colonies the new cylons served in wars between humans. Finally there came a time when the colonies were united. Without a purpose and the knowledge that the colonial government was planning on destroying their cylon armies in the planned military drawdown the more intelligent models (like TOS Lucifer and Spectre) of the cylons decided to rebel against their masters rather than face what they perceived as death. And so Moore's universe begins...
  Reply With Quote
Old March 6th, 2004, 10:58 AM   #25
repcisg
Bad Email Address
 
repcisg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Vancouver, Wa USA
Posts: 1,874

Default

You can only stretch a rubber band just so far. IMHO they have yet to make a rubber band big enough to encompass both shows.
repcisg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 6th, 2004, 11:10 AM   #26
BarrymoreYorke
Guest
 
BarrymoreYorke's Avatar
 
Posts: n/a

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by repcisg
You can only stretch a rubber band just so far. IMHO they have yet to make a rubber band big enough to encompass both shows.
Sure they have.

BSG 2003 is set in an alternate universe.

Hell, it's been done in comic books for years. Earth-1, where the silver age DC heroes lived. Earth-2, where the golden age DC heroes lived. Same characters, different looks, different eras. It continues today with the Marvel Ultimate line, where the familiar Marvel heroes are given sometimes WILDLY different origins and ages. Check out Ultimate Fantastic Four if you REALLY want a headache!

Somewhere beyond the stars, perhaps in another -- alternate -- universe, there are still brothers of man fighting to survive. . . .
  Reply With Quote
Old March 6th, 2004, 11:11 AM   #27
Antelope
Guest
 
Antelope's Avatar
 
Posts: n/a

Default

My proposed "Moore's universe is in the distant future" scenario would work with the Desanto Continuation if it was ever made also. Since the Desanto continuation says that humans are still alive on the 12 colonies and being used as a slave labor force. As long as a continuation is not made where the colonies are reconqueored by humans my scenario would keep ALL the Galactica mythos intact and take nothing from any continuation efforts based on TOS.
  Reply With Quote
Old March 6th, 2004, 01:05 PM   #28
Westy
Warrior
 
Westy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Weymouth, MA, USA
Posts: 243

Default

I wouldn't mind the TOS actors doing cameos. Whatever gets them on the screen again is good...it might even generate more interest in what they did before. If it never happened that wouldn't bother me either. It's up to them I guess....I'll say this though, if anyone deserves to make $$ in something called Battlestar Galactica, it's them.
Westy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 6th, 2004, 01:48 PM   #29
amberstar
Strike Leader
 
amberstar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Among the 13th tribe....
Posts: 4,579


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westy
I wouldn't mind the TOS actors doing cameos. Whatever gets them on the screen again is good...it might even generate more interest in what they did before. If it never happened that wouldn't bother me either. It's up to them I guess....I'll say this though, if anyone deserves to make $$ in something called Battlestar Galactica, it's them.
Well said westy

Amber
amberstar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 6th, 2004, 02:47 PM   #30
shiningstar
Bad Email Address
 
shiningstar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 12,939


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westy
I wouldn't mind the TOS actors doing cameos. Whatever gets them on the screen again is good...it might even generate more interest in what they did before. If it never happened that wouldn't bother me either. It's up to them I guess....I'll say this though, if anyone deserves to make $$ in something called Battlestar Galactica, it's them.
I truelly DOUBT that they will do it Westy
shiningstar is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
how many "tos" character will make it into the (new) mini (series) sharpe26 The Last Battlestar......Galactica! 38 July 2nd, 2021 09:58 PM
A Continuation-So Simple. kingfish The Last Battlestar......Galactica! 34 July 30th, 2020 06:21 PM
A Thought for TOS Diehards... nextceo The Last Battlestar......Galactica! 56 June 19th, 2019 01:17 AM
TOS Ships in The Mini Spike The Cylon The Last Battlestar......Galactica! 13 January 16th, 2004 08:02 AM




So sez our Muffit!!!

For fans of the Classic Battlestar Galactica series



COPYRIGHT
All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:01 PM. Contact the Fleet - Colonial Fleets - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top
Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.8.11, Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content and Graphics ©2000-Present Colonial Fleets
The Colonial Fleets Forums are run by Battlestar Galactica fans, paid for by Battlestar Galactica fans, for the enjoyment of fellow Battlestar Galactica fans.



©2000-2008 Colonial Fleets