03: The Lost Warrior

Eric Paddon · December 29th, 2004, 09:45 PM

This thread will be for discussion on changes in adapting episode #3, "The Lost Warrior" and conforming the story to an overall season arc storyline.

Eric Paddon · February 3rd, 2005, 08:01 AM

This is the first episode from a chronological standpoint that I have yet to tackle as an adaptation. And mostly that's because one of my oldest fanfic projects from long ago was a sequel to this episode that involves a Pegasus team returning to the planet of this episode (Equellas) in search of resources they need (this being one yahren or so after the events of "Living Legend") and I came up with the notion that Vella's husband Martin, the Colonial Warrior who had been stranded there had in fact been a Pegasus warrior.

If I were to redo this episode, I would certainly include a scene of Apollo studying the wreckage of the old viper and being able to tell perhaps from the helmet which ship Martin had come from. If he were to learn it was in fact a Pegasus warrior, then at the same time this would be something Apollo would not bring up by the time of Living Legend because I think the other thing that needs to get stressed a bit more in a redo is how this experience leaves an additional scar of sorts on Apollo. He's just coming off the loss of Serina in LPOTG, and potentially finds himself thrust in a situation where he could see an opportunity to have a life safe and secure from the problems of the war with Vella and Puppis, but what ultimately overrides that temptation is that he has an obligation to Boxey to get back to him, as well as to the rest of his family. It can make for a bit of additional emotional angst in Apollo if he's musing about how if he only had no other responsibilities and people he loved and cared for back in the Fleet, it would be easy for him to just remain stranded.

And because Apollo goes through this bit of angst, this is why he never says a word about this experience to anyone after he gets back. We see a sign of this in the episode itself when he ignores Starbuck's question of what happened to him. I think Apollo would in a way look back on this event and feel ashamed that he ever felt tempted by the possibility of staying to begin with and would never want to admit that he pondered the idea, especially once he's back among the people he loves most. At any rate, one would see Apollo develop a determination to never let himself be tempted again and this could also help later on explain his quick and easy brush-off of Sarah's proposition in "Greetings From Earth" (and on another level further explain his general desire to not get involved seriously with a woman, thus giving an additional reason for his reluctance to act on whatever feelings he might have for Sheba prior to "Hand Of God").

Anyway, those are my musings on how this episode can ultimately be redone more in a way to further deepen Apollo's character and set the stage better on a subliminal level for some events in future episodes. As to the rest of the episode itself, one other thing that needs to be made more clear IMO is an explanation of how Apollo is all alone by himself at the outset surrounded by Cylons. Surely he didn't go out on patrol by himself? One would assume that another warrior went with him and was killed perhaps in the ambush by the Cylon patrol (maybe one of the lesser experienced recruits from LPOTG). This would at least help better explain how Apollo ends up in this predicament to begin with, and it should also make for some additional musings of regret over the loss of a patrol wingmate at some point in the story.

General thoughts at least. Hopefully at some point I can finally get this episode done in the overall project. Thoughts from anyone else on what they'd do with this episode to improve it in the overall scheme of things?

Pegasus4 · February 3rd, 2005, 10:11 PM

Hi,

I've been reading these forums for some time now and have finally joined so I can post. No idea what took me so long

I like your adaptations and fanfic stories and reading about The Lost Warrior I'd like to add my 2 cents.

I was always under the impression that Apollo was alone for that mission in leading a Cylon patrol away from the fleet. Considering he just lost his wife, and still felt guilty about his brother, I don't think Apollo would want to jeapardize (sp)anyone else's life. He was also running low on fuel by the time he encountered the cylons so he had to have been out there for some time. If another pilot was with him at first, by now Apollo could've ordered him/her back to the Galactica.

Another change I'd like in this ep is to please change the music in the saloon hehe.

Seriously I had another point I wanted to make about this episode but can't remember atm.

BST · February 4th, 2005, 06:36 AM

Eric,

A thought about the patrol. What if this was a solo mission? If we run with the idea that Martin's ship was from the Pegasus, perhaps Adama and/or Tigh were aware of a Pegasus mission, in this quadrant prior to the attack on the Colonies and were investigating the various planets / systems for information about the mission. Adama may have been aware that the Pegasus survived the Battle of Molocay and was secretly searching for it. Finding a patrol ship, from the Pegasus, may lead to discovery of the Battlestar which would greatly enhance their chances of survival.

Regarding it being a "solo" patrol, who better to "keep things quiet" than Apollo? Adama may have wanted to keep this muted as much as possible until they had evidence about the Pegasus.

btw, I do like the idea of tying in Martin with the Pegasus. (Bet you couldn't tell!)

Pegasus4 · February 4th, 2005, 08:21 PM

I like it too that Martin could be from the Pegasus but he had to crash over 10 years earlier to father his son. The Pegasus was lost at Molocay for 2 years before TLL.

I was wondering something. Eric, are you planning on putting your sequel story A Promise Kept with the Virtual Season 2 stories? IMO it belongs there as a nice follow up to both Season 1 eps.

Eric Paddon · February 5th, 2005, 12:01 PM

Thank you, Pegasus 4 for your comments! At the moment the old "A Promise Kept" story is not yet on-tap for the Season 2 project since we're a long way off from just doing a basic "reestablishing the Pegasus is still there" story, but when we ever get to that phase, I know it might be possible to work it in. I do know that when I ever do the adaptation proper of "Lost Warrior" I will frame it in a way so that it dovetails with "A Promise Kept" though without being too blatant about it.

Pete, I'm still not sure about the idea of Apollo being on a solo mission. It simply goes against the grain of what we've seen established about how patrols always consist of at least two, and I can't imagine that Adama would have allowed Apollo to do something of greater risk so soon after the events of LPOTG. To me, since one theme of the story is the fact that Apollo does make an error in judgment when he doesn't act more quickly against Red-Eye, it would fit more into the notion of Apollo being a bit off in judgment if a situation developed where he and an unknown wingmate stumbled into something that resulted in the other pilot being killed and Apollo suddenly in a situation too big to handle as things clearly are at the outset of the episode.

Pegasus4 · February 6th, 2005, 12:29 PM

BTW, while on the subject of fanfic what happened to Adam Stacey's stories? They were good reading too especially his Academy tales.

Eric Paddon · February 6th, 2005, 02:42 PM

Adam unfortunately all but abandoned writing fanfic several years ago, and without wanting to comment further publicly, the tone of his more recent posts in another forum I used to belong to don't give me any indication that he'll ever have the desire to resume writing.

Senmut · February 23rd, 2005, 08:06 PM

Never heard of or read any of those. Where might I find them?

TopGun · February 25th, 2005, 04:14 AM

The Patch on Martins Jacket isn't that of the Pegasus, you can see it when Vella brings it out when Apollo finds out that Martin was a Warrior.

Eric Paddon · February 25th, 2005, 08:41 AM

That would be a detail that an adaptation need not be bound by to create a better overall story.

BST · February 25th, 2005, 05:40 PM

Agreed. The jacket could have been "borrowed" OR perhaps it could be written that Martin had just transferred to the Pegasus and hadn't yet gotten the patch replaced yet.

Fragmentary · February 25th, 2005, 05:52 PM

But isn't the patch on Martin's jacket one of the juiciest details in that whole episode? Suggesting a tie in to yet another Battlestar. I just think that it's a wonderful piece of texture that the makers of the original show had the foresight to include. You could easily ignore it, but would you really want to?

TopGun · February 26th, 2005, 02:44 AM

I quess Martin could have Transfered to the Peg, and not changed the Patch. I quess we'll never know

Eric Paddon · February 26th, 2005, 06:13 AM

The point is that in a new adaptation of the story the writer need not be bound by what particular patch it was. This is how the element of foreshadowing later stories can finally be utilized since obviously at the time TLW was written and shot no one would have known what a Pegasus emblem was, so in the rewrite you simply change the emblem to a Pegasus one.

BST · February 26th, 2005, 06:42 AM

Eric,

I'm surprised at you!

The "other" patch could provide fodder for another storyline - an "untold" story, thus far, about another Battlestar.

That may not precisely fit the episode-episode story-tightening idea, here but, it could provide for another fan-fic angle and provide the 'necessary' link to the show which would give a potential fan-fic story greater 'legitimacy' (not the word that I wanted to use but, the intended meaning is close).

Senmut · March 7th, 2005, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopGun

I quess Martin could have Transfered to the Peg, and not changed the Patch. I quess we'll never know

Given Cain's crack-the-whip mentality, I cannot see him overlooking even so small a detail as a pilot's shoulder patch. Either way, it could make for an interesting Fic point.

SpyOne · March 16th, 2005, 06:16 AM

Quote:

If I were to redo this episode, I would certainly include a scene of Apollo studying the wreckage of the old viper and being able to tell perhaps from the helmet which ship Martin had come from. If he were to learn it was in fact a Pegasus warrior, then at the same time this would be something Apollo would not bring up by the time of Living Legend because I think the other thing that needs to get stressed a bit more in a redo is how this experience leaves an additional scar of sorts on Apollo.

I agree that Apollo should recognize and comment on, the ship insignea on the late husband's jacket.
However, I disagree that it should be the Pegasus.
The Battle Of Molecay was only about 2 yahren ago, but the late husband was stranded here long enough ago to have a son who is .. 10?

One of the great unanswered questions of the show is how that poor guy wound up stranded so far from the Colonies. It seems pretty clear his ship was pushing into Cylon space and then was destroyed or forced to retreat. Still, it needs to be clear that he did not just decide to settle down and live in peace, but rather that he chafed at being completely unable to return home. Much like Apollo.

I agree completely that this episode, with its temptations and whatnot, explains a lot of Apollo's development and later behavior.

And having his wingman killed does dovetail with the recent deaths of his Mother, Brother, Wife, and most of his squadron. One more guy dies and then he sees a chance to give up being a Warrior and watch the plants grow; who wouldn't be tempted?

n-121973 · March 26th, 2005, 07:11 AM

I tend to agree with those who suspect Apollo went out there alone as a decoy. Everyone in the Fleet to varying degrees was suffering from the loss of friends a and loved ones, so in looking for people to fly the decoy, nobody could really be excluded. And failing that there's always what Sheba said in the Hand of God about how since his wife's death, Apollo had taken every high risk mission that had come his way.

TopGun · May 9th, 2005, 08:56 AM

I wonder if Martin was a Captain, because Puppis' Uncle (can't remember his name at the moment) knew that Apollo was a Captain

Eric Paddon · May 9th, 2005, 09:23 AM

Yes, I agree on the rank being Captain and it's a good point that a person like Bootes would know the rank right away with Apollo, or perhaps because he knew that was Martin's rank he just assumed it out of habit.

Making Martin a warrior who loved his work and was frustrated about being removed from that because of what happened to him I think also accounts for why he'd be so impulsive to do something dumb like try to kill the Cylon right away without being more methodical and careful.

TopGun · May 9th, 2005, 09:39 AM

Also being a Colonial meant he had no love for the Cylons

Pegasus4 · October 1st, 2005, 02:12 AM

decided to talk about this one.

I don't think there's anything wrong with saying Martin was from the Pegasus despite the patch. After all Eric did change Caprica to Piscera as the planet Baltar went to after the Destruction for adaptation reasons. I never noticed the patch myself and we see it real quick.

I was thinking that if I were writing the adaptation (no thanks hehe), in the gunfight with RedEye, I would take out the High Noon part where they stand facing each other ready to draw. I like old westerns but that part didn't sit well with me. I'd have Apollo get his gun after finding out that this cylon is stranded here and have it drawn already as he walks to the bar hoping to take RedEye by surprise. Not taking any chances. Lacerta and Marco, who are approaching Apollo to kill him see the drawn laser and back off with looks of surprise and fear on their faces.

RedEye is then warned by a shout from Lacerta and pulls out his gun and fires. Apollo dives for cover and several shots are fired by both, people who cleared out when seeing Apollo with his gun, duck down further behind any protection they can find. Finally Apollo gets a lucky shot to RedEye's, well... red eye. Shoots him between the eyes so to speak. Blows his head off. hey, the red eye is a target at night.

everyone cheers and the people start throwing rocks and bottles at LaCerta driving him out of town. that sets up for the Pegasus story a year later.

Apollo is still thinking of staying after this but when he accidently calls Puppis Boxey, he feels guilty that only a week earlier he made a deathbed promise to Serina that he would take care of Boxey. He says he's sorry to Vella who wanted him to stay but she then realizes that he's needed more with his own family and finally tells him her husband's fighter might have fuel.

I'd also have it that after he returns home he just dismisses all this as he ran out of fuel, landed, and searched for a refill then came back. If asked why he's recharging his gun he can say he had some target practice while searching for fuel. When Vella and Puppis are lying there looking at the stars we can have Apollo in the Celestial Dome on the Galactica also looking at the stars as he works on fixing the machines.

Another change I'd make is the barracks scene. This is the point I mentioned months ago and forgot hehe. We have Cassiopea storming into the men's room and yelling at Starbuck for keeping Boxey up and teaching him to drink and gamble. Why her? I like her alot but shouldn't this be Athena instead? She's now the kid's aunt so shouldn't she be the one coming in to get him and put him to bed? She could then smile at Starbuck like Cassie did while removing his cigar. This can explain why Starbuck asked Athena to dinner with him on the Rising Star in the next ep when he thinks he still has a chance with her.

It's also a good way to give Athena more storytime and development.

Leave the card game in. I'm not a Boxey fan but I like how he beat Starbuck for real with a full pyramid. Please don't say Boomer helped him cheat

Eric Paddon · October 1st, 2005, 06:27 AM

Good suggestion on having Athena be the one to finally take Boxey to bed. Definitely makes more sense all things considered since there's no reason this early in the chronology for Cassiopeia to have some kind of role in terms of looking after Boxey.

I forget who it was that first did this (might have been Adam Stacey), but there was a long ago article or fanfic story that had Piscera as Baltar's home colony and that sort of got ingrained in my mind and has stuck ever since.

Pegasus4 · October 4th, 2005, 09:55 PM

I think the Encyclopedia Galactica said Baltar was from Piscera, hold on while I look it up.

Says he's from Picon (ok the planet has 2 names) and he hates Caprica and Aries (Ariana). Btw this book was written by a fan from Taura

Eric Paddon · October 4th, 2005, 09:58 PM

Whether Picon or Piscera, it's still appropriate since Baltar's such a cold fish.

Senmut · October 6th, 2005, 01:24 AM

PLEASE, EP, such awful puns! Scale 'em back, okay?

Senmut · October 6th, 2005, 01:50 AM

Maybe, with personnel spread thin at the time, Athena was pulling extra duty on the bridge? With Apollo missing, so soon after Zac, she'd probably want to stay close to things. Hence, Cassie turns up in the billet.

Senmut · February 21st, 2009, 09:00 PM

Hello? ANyone?

Eric Paddon · March 24th, 2010, 08:37 PM

Been checking this one again tonight. Looking back at my earlier comments, I'm surprised I didn't touch on what may be the episode's biggest flaw, which is Apollo's overly cautious approach to the whole Red-Eye situation. Realistically, Apollo should start to ponder the prospect that Red-Eye is just a lone, stranded Cylon in the same way that Martin was a lone stranded warrior (and the same way he is) from the instant Bootes tells him that nothing happened after Red-Eye took Martin's pistol.