offtopic chat from (Tom's REVIEW of the mini)

thomas7g · November 15th, 2003, 12:46 AM

I got permission to say this. I saw the mini. It’s being passed around ALOT and I got lucky.

Before I start let me say that there is a very detailed critique of the mini at cylon.org. I had a different take on it but only in the subjective parts. I respect him and his review. And since my main pc died and this one is very hard to type on, please look at his review for the details of the plot. I'll just hit where we differ.

Even though I loved the old series, I wasn't there to bash it. The failure of the mini-series could make it harder to convince the studios a BG movie can make money. So I'm just looking at it as a typical viewer and forgetting BG and trying to see it as a completely new scifi series.

Still.... I saw structural problems. Way more than I thought it would have. And alot didn't make sense. (more on this later)

The first sequence is gonna offend a lot of folks. A colonial warrior is sitting at a desk. Two cylons appear. Then a very slinky female (a new cylon) walks up, asks if he’s “alive”. And she French-kisses him brutally while she puts her hand down and clamps his family jewels. (You probably don't want your kids to see that.) Meanwhile, Cylons outside destroy the space station.

After that, the first hour is pretty dull. No action. Well... no non-sexual action. Its all setup for something we “may” find interesting later. For an hour, you have to wade through some very slow dialog. And some oddly thrown in groping and sex scenes. (I'll talk about the sex later). Though I liked the Adama scene where he is given his old fighter from when he was a combat pilot. (That's the white one we see in the commercial. The main fighter they use now is dull gray. You see it briefly in a overhead view in the trailer.) Caprica for the most part looks like Los Angeles. It looks like they found places to shoot at instead of designing and building sets. Clothes look the same too.. VERY SLOW for an hour.

The action finally starts in the second hour. The nuking of Caprica looks great. The rendering and editing of combat scenes look awesome. The one flaw is it really needs music to get you excited. And it looks like there isn't going to be. Just a sort of drum beating that is suppose to be tense. But it loses its effect quickly. And the battles start getting uninteresting. If there isn't a new soundtrack coming, the show has no hope. Since this is a rough, there might still be music coming.

One of the really big problems of this miniseries is the lack of emotional depth the characters display. If you recall, 9-11 had everyone feelings of great shock, tears and anger. There was little of that here despite the fact that the enemy had brutally killed billions. Basically they all acted like they were working through a bad day but they never seemed to really feel it. After just living through great tragedy recently in our lives, it seems very odd to not see that emotional hammer hitting these people. Though there were some good scenes. But it really needed to show people really feeling the immensity of what was happening.

All-in-all, the whole show felt very low key and subdued. Everything felt downplayed. Like I was watching it from far away.

The best performance was by Edward James Olmos as Adama. He is good in places, but still sometimes kinda flat. Him and everyone else really needs more scenes that make you like them as characters. And a director that brings more out of them. They don't have to be good and noble, but they need to be more engaging. They can’t be obnoxious. And right now there are several main characters (Starbuck, Apollo, and Tigh) that are obnoxious and unlikable.

The one thing that was hyped up dramatically was the sex. There was almost no foreplay here. No gentle looks, no chemical attraction. One minute you are watching two strangers, the next they are jumping on each other. It’s very bizarre. After the destruction of a civilization hardly a tear, but instead they have the sudden urge to jump on each other! Literally. It didn't make sense.

A couple of other weak points:

The live action filmwork looks very "video". It don't have the depth film usually has. Also they overdo the handheld camera look. Its fine in a frenzied fight, but if everyone is standing still, and the camera is the only thing moving, its like being on a small rocking boat.

The sets are probably the best part of this show. But one area I think needs to be rethought is the all white landing bay. The floors are white, the walls are white, the ceilings, the vipers (the old one). How can the crew have dirt and oil smudges on them if the floor and the ships are spotless? You wouldn’t think an area for services combat vehicles would be so ….white…

On a whole, the show looked like more a revival of Babylon Five than the original Galactica TV show. The Cylon raiders and Basestars look like they came off B5 directly. The uniforms looked like they came from the B5 wardrobe department. Everything down to the "chicken soup". Sets look like they were shot around LA. Generic clothing often look exactly like they were bought at the mall.

All said, I think it’s about as interesting as your typical SciFi Channel movie. Just with more expensive sets and special effects. Plot wise it feels about the same level of quality. I think a lot depends on rescoring the music completely from what I saw. If they don’t do ALOT of changes, this will most definitely bomb. They REALLY need to redo the music I heard. Desperately.

Ratings the first night will be based on the advertising and name recognition to make the first run a good hit in the Nielson’s. Though viewers will be appauled in droves, but they will watch the first run. But I can't imagine repeat viewings doing well.

They may go to series based on a high rating the first night. And most of the problems can be fixed by firing the director and doing a massive remaking of this remake. And rewriting their whole approach.

But then why not go with a charismatic cast everyone loves and a story that you know grabs at your heart. People still believe in the original show after 25 years.

oldwardaggit · November 15th, 2003, 09:38 AM

I'm thinking that it's pretty hard to look at it as just a sci fi fan and not a fan of Battlestar Galactica when they are calling it Battlestar Galactica and you are a fan.

Just when I thought I was out, they pulled me back in

Go Tom and Glen, we are behind you and your continuation
OWD

thomas7g · November 15th, 2003, 12:20 PM

Darrel, I think you are expecting studio execs to be able to tell the difference between the two battlestar shows. I would be willing to bet most can't. They probably aren't sci-fi fans. They probably are completely ignorant of the whole concept. All they see are dvd sales, convention attendance, and mini series ratings.

OWD- It did try to see the show as a totally seperate thing from BG. I assummed that nothing would be the same. And tried to see good things and enjoy it.

But alot of the problems I was expecting over the last year were there. The cast is mostly non-charismatic. Sometimes very unlikable. The story is alot more detailed, there are alot more personality conflicts, but also alot less "heart". its not just that the destruction of the coloniies are portrayed darker, these people to begin with are lacking in camaraderie, kindness, warmth. They go through the motions of having them, but they seem to not really be attached to those kind of emotions.

They all kinda seem a bit anal. They were all too serious and emotionless BEFORE they even reached the attack. No one seems to have the ability to laugh really. And that has nothing to do with the dark times they have to go through. its the nature of the characters.

thomas7g · November 16th, 2003, 02:17 AM

wow.... Only two replies... So much for the value of my 2 cents.

November 16th, 2003, 04:24 AM

Well, I can't get to the cylon.org site for some reason (I've got an email in to Sandy though, maybe he can help me get it worked out) so I can't fill in the stuff you haven't covered but it sounds pretty much as we expected...

What I'm waiting for is the look of stunned surprise on Bonnie Hammer's face when the movers arrive to pack up her office and move her into the basement...

Mark

November 16th, 2003, 09:52 AM

Quote:

What I'm waiting for is the look of stunned surprise on Bonnie Hammer's face when the movers arrive to pack up her office and move her into the basement...

That'll be the best special effect yet!

oldwardaggit · November 16th, 2003, 10:59 AM

Tom, I just re-read my post and was surprised how it looked like I was taking a shot at you.

I'm really sorry for that because I was just trying to convey that it's a shame that we should have to look at it from a different perspective as a non fan when they are calling it Battlestar Galactica and we are fans .

I value your friendship and every others on this board so once again I'm sorry how that sounded. We all have different ways of liking or disliking something and I totally respect that.

OWD

kingfish · November 16th, 2003, 01:17 PM

Babylon 5 had a story arc. This show sounds like dribble. Maybe if they had gotten JMS we could like the thingy. However they decided to do it their way, dis-respecting both the property and fandom. They gave us a Yadda, yadda like on Seinfeld. Olmos is the only actor who looks like he knows what is going on. I wasn't as fortunate to see the entire mini. I guess I dont have those Enron connections. :laugh:

Micheleh · November 16th, 2003, 01:54 PM

(Edited by Black Tower goon squad)

I partially understand the sex thing- if you approach it in a dry, psychological, Freudian animalistic urges kind of way, usually a tradgedy fo this sort does bring a massive increase of reproduction- hence the Baby Boom. It just isn't good to portray charachters as only being drive by such impulses.

From what I've heard, the lack of heart is what will kill the mini. People just won't care what happens next, a failure on the part of the writer.

thomas7g · November 16th, 2003, 04:16 PM

OWD- I never took it as a shot. I know you better than that. I never even thought of it as that. I consider you a friend too! I was just glad someone replied! Just you and D. Though I shoulda put REVIEW in the title when I created the thread. I hope my reply didn't sound too defensive. Please remember, my main pc died and my online time was rather hurried.

hehe...Oh Michele, you are going to get me into trouble! Lets just say I could get people in trouble and Universal really needs to be more security cautious. No questions please.

Micheleh · November 16th, 2003, 04:30 PM

Ah! Sorry. I'll get rid of the photos of you at the last Black Tower hot tub party.

(Who was that girl in the feathers?)

BST · November 16th, 2003, 04:34 PM

She must have been the one smokin' plant vapors!

thomas7g · November 16th, 2003, 04:35 PM

KF- It felt like they were trying to do something like B5, right down to the B5 uniforms and the way the basestars look like Shadow vessels.

But B5 was always had a love of its characters. I didn't feel that here.

It didn't feel like the director loved his own characters. I think that's an important thing.

thomas7g · November 16th, 2003, 04:36 PM

oh god... feathers SCARE me now!!!!!

jewels · November 16th, 2003, 06:16 PM

She must have been one of those bachlorettes from the shuttle....hehehehe

thomas7g · November 16th, 2003, 06:19 PM

I've discovered its not safe here anymore.

dvo47p · November 16th, 2003, 06:54 PM

Cheap Cinema Verte alert:

Quote:

Originally posted by conundrum7g The liveaction filmwork looks very "video". It don't have the depth film usually has. Also they overdo te handheld camera look. Its fine in a frenzied fight, but if everyone is standing still, and the camera is the only thing moviing, its like being on a small rocking boat.

That Cinema Verte baloney, I posted about after this Mr. X better known as the assassin of Battlestar Galactica, yep Ronald D. Moore did that leak @ filmjerk.com, The Blair Witch-Hunt is nothing but Cinema Verte. Moore said he was doing this instead of Dogfight’s in space. Then he alluded to Einstein’s 'Space has a Speed Limit', as in nothing can go faster than light, whoops then Faster Than Light popped up in his script, ah ha!

Quote:

Originally posted by conundrum7g The liveaction filmwork looks very "video". It don't have the depth film usually has. Also they overdo te handheld camera look. Its fine in a frenzied fight, but if everyone is standing still, and the camera is the only thing moviing, its like being on a small rocking boat.

Tom this 'thing' called Battlestar Galactica was done for one reason,"To maintain the franchise"

Here it is in toto: “Well, BATTLESTAR is interesting because it worked well as its original series,” Hammer told CINESCAPE in an exclusive interview. “It didn’t work as well as its second recreation. So what we want to do is a four-hour mini. Basically, give it a new life – maintain the franchise but modernize it and if it works in a mini, then we’ll develop it into a series. If in fact the audience says, ‘Been there, done that’ then we won’t go there.”

https://www.cinescape.com/0/Editorial...e&obj_id=35364

This has something to do with Glen A. Larson's court case and that Sonny Bono Law!

dru · November 18th, 2003, 04:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by conundrum7g
KF- It felt like they were trying to do something like B5, right down to the B5 uniforms and the way the basestars look like Shadow vessels.

But B5 was always had a love of its characters. I didn't feel that here.

It didn't feel like the director loved his own characters. I think that's an important thing.

I shouldn't say this but I happened to click past Judge Dredd the other evening and the uniforms of the judges *screamed* BSG mini to me. I found that very, very disturbing.

I too noticed the Shadow-ish look to the new Basestar design sketches.

dvo47p · November 18th, 2003, 02:15 PM

To:"Starbuck 007" <Starbuck007@yahoogroups.com>, "BSG 2003" <BSG-2003@yahoogroups.com>, "Battlestar Agamemnon" <battlestaragammemnon@yahoogroups.com>, "Battlestar Galactica Babes" <battlestargalacticababes@yahoogroups.com>, "Battlestar" <BattleStar@yahoogroups.com>, "Battlestar Galactica Continued" <Battlestar_Galactica_Continued@yahoogroups.com>, "Battlestar Excalibur" <Battlestar_Excalibur@yahoogroups.com>, "Battlestar Galactica Fan Club" <battlestargalacticafanclub@yahoogroups.com>, "Richard Hatch Fans" <richardhatchfans@yahoogroups.com>, "Apollo's Battlestar Galactica" <apollosbattlestargalactica@yahoogroups.com>, "BATTLESTAR GALACTICA" <BATTELSTA_GALACTICA@yahoogroups.com>, "Battlestar Galactica" <battlestargalactica@yahoogroups.com>, "DeSanto Battlestar Galactica" <battlestar-galactica@yahoogroups.com>, "GA Battlestar Galactica" <GABattlestarGalactica@yahoogroups.com>, "Richard Apollo Hatch" <RichardApolloHatch@yahoogroups.com>, "BSG Infinity" <BSGinfinity@yahoogroups.com>, "Kamikazee Cowboy" <kamikazecowboy@yahoogroups.com>, "Noah Hathaway Group" <dreams_of_noah_hathaway@yahoogroups.com>, "Battlestar Poseidon" <battlestarposeidon@yahoogroups.com>, "Battlestar Galactica Rec Room" <battlestargalacticarecroom@yahoogroups.com>, "Battlestar Reunion" <battlestarreunion@yahoogroups.com>, "BSG Revival Group" <battlestargalacticarevival@yahoogroups.com>, "BG Revivial" <BG-Revival@yahoogroups.com>, "Ron Moore Sucks" <RonMooreSucks@yahoogroups.com>, "BSG Revival Room" <bsgrevivalroom@yahoogroups.com>, "Upset With Sci Fi Channel" <upset_with_scifichannel@yahoogroups.com>, "Battlestar Sheba" <Battlestar_Sheba@yahoogroups.com>, "BSG Slash" <bsgslash002@yahoogroups.com>, "BSG Warriors" <BSGWarriors@yahoogroups.com>

From: "jaeson jrakman" <jjrakman@yahoo.com> Add to Address Book
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 20:13:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [battlestar-galactica] Reviews for the rough cut of the New Sci Fi Mini Series

Some people have already seen rough cuts of Ronald D. Moore's remake of Battlestar Galactica to air on Sci Fi Channel on December. Here's a few reviews of that remake.

https://www.genreonline.net/Battlesta...es_Review.html

https://www.aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=16490

https://www.colonialfleets.com/forums...&threadid=4979

November 18th, 2003, 08:11 PM

Yeah, I got one response from one of those groups saying they didn't know if they could handle a female Starbuck, as though they hadn't heard of any of this before. So I figured, I should spread the word.

thomas7g · November 18th, 2003, 08:34 PM

I've become SPAM!

LOL

I notice no one is replying to my post in Ted's forum. Too bad. ;D

dvo47p · November 19th, 2003, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by conundrum7g I notice no one is replying to my post in Ted's forum. Too bad. ;D [/B]

I've sent Harry's AICN review to just about every Scifi Zine, he was not as nice as you or Sandy. So what about Ted's board all 181 members are Ted.

dvo47p · November 19th, 2003, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jjrakman Yeah, I got one response from one of those groups saying they didn't know if they could handle a female Starbuck, as though they hadn't heard of any of this before. So I figured, I should spread the word.

Most of those addresses you used JJ seemed to be yahoo groups. I get a weekly batch of mail from some I joined so to increase the # of members.

Your repost of Tom's review was mostly to groups, here is an unrelated email from a group, that caught my eye.

From: Hildy Krish <thomesocksup@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: MooreRon and Sci-Fi

If I see another promo for the mini series, I'm going to puke.

Battlestar New York <battlestarnewyork@lycos.com> wrote:I have to deal with Porn posts, password sniffer posts, and 1,000 other things. I have to deal with people telling us to keep an open mind because the miniseries hasn't aired, even though we have a script, a crappy website, trailers, and
other stuff, which means we have more than enough information to form an opinion. On top of that, I have to deal with invasions of the black squadron and the rest of the MooreRon suckups. SO, Kathryn....**** YOU!!!!
I feel much better now.

dvo: I wonder who this Kathryn is?

November 19th, 2003, 10:46 AM

Yeah I saw that too. Can't say as I blame him but the reviews aren't exactly what I'd call a "promo!" Oh well, too bad so sad.

jewels · November 19th, 2003, 12:23 PM

Dvo: let's not bring the dirty laundry of other mailists here please. I'm not always happy with how newbies are treated there, a little too "shoot first," without attempting to persuasively convert someone that might just be poorly informed. (Jewels started out poorly informed herself, though as soon as they said Starbuck was going to be a girl, the catastrophe was obvious.

thomas7g · November 19th, 2003, 01:49 PM

Well, you guys can always tell people to come here. I did see the thing after all. And I'll answer any question put to me.

Though I only saw it once. and the memory has faded alot.

dvo47p · November 19th, 2003, 04:28 PM

jewels these are groups JJ sent his three BSG lite reviews to, WE see them, they do not see us.

Quote:

Originally posted by jewels Dvo: let's not bring the dirty laundry of other mailists here please. I'm not always happy with how newbies are treated there, a little too "shoot first," without attempting to persuasively convert someone that might just be poorly informed. (Jewels started out poorly informed herself, though as soon as they said Starbuck was going to be a girl, the catastrophe was obvious.

I see your point, I came here via Michael Faries & knew many from The Scifi Channel's unmoderated Board. Heaven on the Internet, indeed.

So NO to my invite of Michael Jackson Odd thing he is not answering his email, ya recon its the COPS?

Notice none of these did not turn blue, they are Yahoo Groups, so not even the 'Richard Hatch Fans' Group or the 'Kamikazee Cowboy' Group? Neither is over flowing with fans. Nathan & another that was John @ Galacticon run the two largest boards.

To:"Starbuck 007" <Starbuck007@yahoogroups.com>, "BSG 2003" <BSG-2003@yahoogroups.com>, "Battlestar Agamemnon" <battlestaragammemnon@yahoogroups.com>, "Battlestar Galactica Babes" <battlestargalacticababes@yahoogroups.com>, "Battlestar" <BattleStar@yahoogroups.com>, "Battlestar Galactica Continued" <Battlestar_Galactica_Continued@yahoogroups.com>, "Battlestar Excalibur" <Battlestar_Excalibur@yahoogroups.com>, "Battlestar Galactica Fan Club" <battlestargalacticafanclub@yahoogroups.com>, "Richard Hatch Fans" <richardhatchfans@yahoogroups.com>, "Apollo's Battlestar Galactica" <apollosbattlestargalactica@yahoogroups.com>, "BATTLESTAR GALACTICA" <BATTELSTA_GALACTICA@yahoogroups.com>, "Battlestar Galactica" <battlestargalactica@yahoogroups.com>, "DeSanto Battlestar Galactica" <battlestar-galactica@yahoogroups.com>, "GA Battlestar Galactica" <GABattlestarGalactica@yahoogroups.com>, "Richard Apollo Hatch" <RichardApolloHatch@yahoogroups.com>, "BSG Infinity" <BSGinfinity@yahoogroups.com>, "Kamikazee Cowboy" <kamikazecowboy@yahoogroups.com>, "Noah Hathaway Group" <dreams_of_noah_hathaway@yahoogroups.com>, "Battlestar Poseidon" <battlestarposeidon@yahoogroups.com>, "Battlestar Galactica Rec Room" <battlestargalacticarecroom@yahoogroups.com>, "Battlestar Reunion" <battlestarreunion@yahoogroups.com>, "BSG Revival Group" <battlestargalacticarevival@yahoogroups.com>, "BG Revivial" <BG-Revival@yahoogroups.com>, "Ron Moore Sucks" <RonMooreSucks@yahoogroups.com>, "BSG Revival Room" <bsgrevivalroom@yahoogroups.com>, "Upset With Sci Fi Channel" <upset_with_scifichannel@yahoogroups.com>, "Battlestar Sheba" <Battlestar_Sheba@yahoogroups.com>, "BSG Slash" <bsgslash002@yahoogroups.com>, "BSG Warriors" <BSGWarriors@yahoogroups.com>

thomas7g · November 21st, 2003, 10:41 AM

Thanks everyone for spreading the review around.

I was wondering if it ever got over to the scifi boards. Does anyone know?

dvo47p · November 21st, 2003, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by conundrum7g
Thanks everyone for spreading the review around.

I was wondering if it ever got over to the scifi boards. Does anyone know?

I bet they will I have posted FAR WORSE,
but read below>

dvo47p,

Your article "conundrum7g @ colonalfleets.com" has been posted. Since this is a moderated topic, your article will be reviewed by scifi.com staff before it can be displayed. Thank you.

dvo47p · November 21st, 2003, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dvo_in_cf
I bet they will I have posted FAR WORSE,
but read below>

dvo47p,

Your article "conundrum7g @ colonalfleets.com" has been posted. Since this is a moderated topic, your article will be reviewed by scifi.com staff before it can be displayed. Thank you.

NO JOY YOUR REVIEW WAS REJECTED, TRY MUFFIT