Battlestar insignia

April 19th, 2004, 03:47 PM

Hi folks. I'm familiar with the collar insignia worn by the bridge crew and warriors of the Galactica as well as those worn by the crew of the Pegasus. I know that US Army Military Intelligence branch pins were used for the Galactica (except they were worn inverted/dagger pointing down) and US Navy Command Ashore pins were used for the Pegasus. Assuming that each battlestar would have their own insignia, was there a set used in the show for the crew of the Atlantia? If so, what did the insignia look like?

thomas7g · April 19th, 2004, 04:39 PM

Good question!

Anyone know?

jewels · April 19th, 2004, 08:54 PM

I can't think of an Atlantia scene where any warrior is shown close enough to see.

April 20th, 2004, 09:28 AM

Yeah, it's a pity there were no close up Atlantia scenes. The crew seemed to have a distinctive shoulder patch, but I couldn't make it out either.

Titon · April 21st, 2004, 05:33 AM

There was an insignia for the Atlantia. I think i have some info on that somewhere. I'll look and let you guys know.

April 21st, 2004, 08:10 AM

Thanks Titon, I look forward to seeing it.

April 26th, 2004, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Titon

There was an insignia for the Atlantia. I think i have some info on that somewhere. I'll look and let you guys know.

Hi Titan, have you found any info on the Atlantia's insignia?

Rowan · April 26th, 2004, 04:52 PM

Apollon try this site

http://www.tic.ab.ca/~markv/battle~2.htm

" * Denotes item from Warrior Tech Manual (presuming the Seal is the same as the Warrior insignia patch) * Denotes my own design and is therefor not official."

BST · April 26th, 2004, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rowan

Apollon try this site

http://www.tic.ab.ca/~markv/battle~2.htm

" * Denotes item from Warrior Tech Manual (presuming the Seal is the same as the Warrior insignia patch) * Denotes my own design and is therefor not official."

Great find, Rowan.

April 27th, 2004, 05:00 AM

Indeed, a great find! Thanks Rowan.

Rowan · April 28th, 2004, 05:56 PM

Your welcome gentlemen always a pleasure to be of help

Darth Marley · May 14th, 2004, 04:59 AM

Oddity to throw in:
http://www.thepatchshop.de/de/dept_71.html

May 14th, 2004, 03:31 PM

I've got a Galactica patch sewn on my gear pack which I got from battlestargalactica.org:

http://www.battlestargalactica.org/c...insignia.shtml

Incidentally, in the "Lost Warrior" episode we catch a glimpse of the patch on Martin's flight jacket. Even though it's not mentioned in the episode, has anyone speculated which Battlestar he was from?

http://www.kobol.com/sales/sale006.html

jewels · May 14th, 2004, 08:17 PM

You might want to start a separate thread for that question. Larocque or Eric Paddon or Skippercollecto are some of the heavily steeped in the details folks around here that have loads of background information from years past would be your best bets. You could also try emailing Susan Paxton at Battlestar Zone. She's a one person walking Galactica encyclopedia. There might be something one of them knows.

Jewels

Ioraptor · May 14th, 2004, 10:55 PM

Ofcourse we must not forget the men and women of the Galactica who maintain the pipes and recycle systems of the ship proper. Theirs is an ancient task said first to have been practiced by the very Lords of Kobol on their white porcelain thrones in ages past. Though the butt of rough humor these fellows insure that the fleet might continue its arduous journey. Indeed, close examination of this insignia reveals a mystery of history most significant to our journey.

http://hazard.sphosting.com/felpatch.jpg

Look closely at the globe between the arrows of recycling.... It is a globe representing a planet. But which planet you ask? Where did the art of Feldercarb recycling reach its zenith? The planet is Earth, the thirteenth colony.

justjackrandom · May 17th, 2004, 02:14 PM

From what I can make out from the few scenes where we see something of the patch, it does not look much like the design shown at

http://www.tic.ab.ca/~markv/battle~2.htm.

It seems to be a circular patch more like the Galactica’s, with what looks like either a u-shaped laurel branch with a sword pointing upward through the center, or a trident. If a trident, it is possible that the collar insignia worn by the Pegasus crew were re-used pieces of wardrobe from the Atlantia’s crew. It never did make sense to me that the Pegasus’ collar pins were tridents…unless they are not ship specific, but indicative of some larger military organization, which may be the case. There is evidence of this in Saga. The Gemons playing cards with Starbuck are from another ship (their patches are different…Acropolis perhaps?), but their collar tabs are the same as those of the Galactica.

Bill

Charybdis · May 18th, 2004, 11:16 AM

137th Gebirg · June 7th, 2004, 04:41 PM

I have done some research on this since the DVD set came out, and from what I have been able to ascertain, the Atlantia shoulder patch is the same as the Galactica patch BUT with an extra diamond-shaped patch on top of it with what appears to be a fleur-de-lis. There are some extra scenes of the Pyramid game between Starbuck and the Gemon (the guy with the REALLY big hair) right before the first alert which clearly shows the Gemon's patch. The scene with the Atlantia blowing up shows a bridge officer furiously pounding buttons on his console. He APPEARS to have the exact same patch as the Gemon playing Pyramid.

Original Gemon pics:

Original Atlantia pics:

"My Take" on this patch:

Re: Martin's patch: I remember reading somewhere that the props department folks mentioned the Acropolis as being his Battlestar of origin. I have no idea where to find this info again, but it was good enough for me.

BTW...Background on the patches:

Galactica: Custom for the show - aparently two versions existed - the Blue Squadron version and the Red Squadron version:

According to various stories, the red squadron patches were used on a scant few uniforms on the flight deck. However, since they were allegedly only used during tactical alerts, the red filters on the lights made them appear identical to the Blue Squadron patches.

Pegasus: Originally Korean-era SCARWAF patches (Special Category Army With Air Force) Joint Ground Combat Units

Acropolis "Martin's Patch" (?): Originally Army 18th Medical Command

Celestra: Army 78th Infantry Division

Rising Star Medical: Originally Air Force Academy Dress Patch (without lower
section with text) - Before/After - After pic from Kobol.com

Prison Barge: Originally 3rd Army Corps, turned upside-down

I'm still looking for information on the origin of the Galactica medical patch & pin & the enforcers logos:

(Pics from Kobol.com and other sources)

Enjoy!

Gebirg

P.S. - The pics from the CW Tech Manual are bogus, IIRC. They were never seen on film.

jewels · June 7th, 2004, 05:50 PM

Wow, thanks for putting all that in one place, 137th Gebrig.

Just to put the pins in the same place:

Galactica collar pins are Army intelligence insignia

Pegasus collar pins are Naval Command Ashore insignia (these come in 2 sizes--Cain's uniform showed both--and are a trident with a laurel leaf wreath.)

BST · June 7th, 2004, 06:16 PM

Regarding these patches, there is also some excellent information regarding their roots, in the following thread:

http://www.colonialfleets.com/forums...ead.php?t=3079

June 8th, 2004, 06:29 PM

137th Gebirg, brilliant find!

That's a good blowup pic of the Gemon's shoulder patch. Incidentally, I just watched the DVD and it appears that the Gemon playing pyramid with Starbuck is wearing Galactica's collar insignia.

Also, I read this piece on Colonial Uniforms http://www.geocities.com/sjpaxton/uniforms.html and it states the following:

"The collar pins are standard military pins; that for the Galactica is the Army Military Intelligence pin, worn upside-down compared to standard military usage. The gold pins worn with the warrior uniforms had the petal inserts painted dark blue; the standard military color is black."

The MI pins worn on the Galactica were indeed worn upside-down, however, the standard military color for the petals is dark blue not black. I confirmed this with an Army lieutenant here in Ft. Benning who is very familiar with branch insignia and had also pointed me to this site which describes the MI insignia as "On a dagger point up, a heralding sun all in gold charged with an oriental blue rose." http://www.micorps.org/

He explained that companies contracted to make the MI branch insignia (and other military insignia in general) used a dark blue enamel which appeared almost black when hardened, but the color has always been blue. The U.S. military now favors STA-BRITE brand insignia which do not require polishing like old brass insignia did. STA-BRITE insignia are made by Ira Green, Inc. http://www.iragreen.com/index.shtml and I have acquired current samples of the MI insignia by STA-BRITE and they are indeed dark blue.

137th Gebirg · June 9th, 2004, 06:14 PM

Thanks for the kind words, all. They are appreciated. Yes, I have a special fascination for symbolism and military insignia, especially when the two are used simultaneously. I found the insignia of BSG to be especially interesting due to the nature of the backstory of the twelve tribes.

Glad you all enjoyed the pics. Here's another one I dug up while watching the DVD's. As far back as the original pilot, there were gold cylons. Check out the fighter in the rear. And no, this image has NOT been colorized. Watch closely at some of the attacks. It's for real and can be more clearly seen a few episodes into the season. Just food for thought...

GOD I love DVD's!!!

137th Gebirg · June 9th, 2004, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apollon

137th Gebirg, brilliant find!

That's a good blowup pic of the Gemon's shoulder patch. Incidentally, I just watched the DVD and it appears that the Gemon playing pyramid with Starbuck is wearing Galactica's collar insignia.

Yup! Forgot to mention that one. The Gemon definitely has a single pin identical to the Galactican pin design. For the life of me, I can't find the article which mentions how the costume department used the same insignia for the Atlantia as with the Galactica, which supports the Gemon/Atlantia pics. Guess that will be for another time.

However, after some additional digging, I found a few extra tidbits. On Sue Paxton's website, there's a big FAQ with lots of info at http://www.geocities.com/sjpaxton/uniforms.html. Here are a few Q&A's that address some of the things I brought up. The second one, in retrospect, is now innacurate, due to the screen caps of the Gemon from the Atlantia and the patches of other lesser ships in the ragtag fleet.

<SNIP>
Q. Why, in the premiere, is Starbuck supposed to recognize the impostors based solely on their insignia, when all the insignia look alike?

A. Because originally each squadron was distinguished by the colors of their patches and the color insert in the collar pins. Under testing, though, the red battle stations lights turned the Red Squadron insignia (the only other squadron supposed to be seen) totally black. The Red Squadron patch was a red background with black border and triangles, and a few were actually made. A great idea, but unfortunately unworkable.

Q. Did each ship have its own insignia?

A. Yes. The only time this was seen, however, was in Living Legend. The designer had thumbnail sketches drawn up for each battlestar in the fleet. Each ship had its own helmet ornament, sleeve patch, and collar pin design. The collar pins are standard military pins; that for the Galactica is the Army Military Intelligence pin, worn upside-down compared to standard military usage. The gold pins worn with the warrior uniforms had the petal inserts painted dark blue; the standard military color is black. The silver pins worn on the blue uniforms were plated and had black inserts. The Pegasus pin is the Command Ashore Project Manager pin from the Navy.
</SNIP>

This other page, entitled "The Lost Battlestars" from Susan's site makes a reference to the patch used by the Acropolis. Link: http://www.geocities.com/sjpaxton/battlest.html

<SNIP>
Acropolis. This name is from costume department information; a ship patch was actually chosen for this ship and is a US military patch of a Greek temple and a sword. I have one of these patches which Larry received from a contact in the costume department at Universal, and interestingly it was obviously sewn on to something at one time. This ship is also mentioned in background dialogue in the premiere. This ship was at the ambush.
</SNIP>

The "Greek Temple" they refer to was probably the stylized number 8 in the patch used by Martin, which definitely has a sword. As a recap, this is the patch used by the Army 18th Medical Command:

BTW, if anyone wants to see the full version of the Air Force Academy/Rising Star medical insignia as seen below (Again, photo from Kobol.com):

Notice on the bottom of the patch how the outer-border stitching was redone after they cut off the "USAF Academy" heraldry. Pretty tricky stuff!

Here it is in its original form from www.saundersmilitaria.com:

If anyone has any info on the origins of the Galactica medical patch/pin combo I would appreciate it. I'm thinking something of Thai or Burmese origin because of the minaret (sp?) and crown on both. It's definitely not American:

Again, photos from Kobol.com

I'm also looking for the origin of the Enforcer insignia from "The Long Patrol".

In my estimation, that should complete the etimology of all insignia used in Battlestar Galactica, unless there's something out there really obscure that I missed.

Yes, I have no life...

137th Gebirg · July 29th, 2004, 05:48 PM

Well, it would appear that I did miss one after all. Commander Cain's Scarf Clip:

There have been discussions on the web out there on this very thing and everyone seems to agree that the inner portion of this medallion is the United States Air Force Combat Readiness Medal. The outer portion remains a mystery. Some have mentioned that it is an outer medal frame that was glued on the back, but I'm not so sure. The webmaster of the "BBS" Costume & Prop Collection apparently has the original medallion on the original Cain outfit, but I'm not so sure about the medallion. Something just doesn't seem right (see below). There appear to be some pieces missing from either side, like there should be a pair of wings or a four-pointed star between the Air Force medal and the outer laurel ring. This is the best I could get:

The fore-mentioned costume site resides at http://home.globalcrossing.net/~gnj/battlestar/battlestar.html

An excellent site - highly recommended!

Oh, I updated my rendition of the Atlantia patch that I researched earlier in this thread. It hasn't been at the top of the list for a while and thought that it should be bumped back up again...

137th Gebirg · July 29th, 2004, 06:16 PM

I think I found it, after more searching, I believe the back piece to be the United States European Command Headquarters Badge:

This seems more in keeping with the original design and it's also in keeping with the prop department's use of Cold War-era military insignia. The kicker is the back piece could also be the National Imagery and Mapping Agency:

Which also has four points on a laurel background, very similar to the EuroCom HQ badge.

Thoughts? Comments?

justjackrandom · July 30th, 2004, 09:45 AM

I love your work man. Have any clue about Adama’s throat pin?

August 1st, 2004, 11:50 AM

137th Gebirg, thanks for another impressive find. Brilliant!

137th Gebirg · August 2nd, 2004, 05:56 AM

Thanks for the kind words, Apollon and all.

Justjackrandom: The Adama madallions (yes, plural - his neck medallion and the Kobol medallion) were going to be the next things to tackle. The Count Iblis medallion, I believe, is nothing more than a decorated cardboard cut-out used to offset the Adama medallion. It does, however, have a design that I intend to publish along with a PHENOMENAL picture of the Iblis/Satan costume that was used for the scene when Starbuck shot Iblis for killing Apollo. Some cool things coming - keep watching and keep the thread bumped!

137th Gebirg · August 5th, 2004, 06:39 AM

Hello, all...

As promised, I have collected some pics on the Iblis Medallion. There is definitely some kind of deliberate pattern here. Not sure of its origins. When doing some research on the web, I came across this:

According to the Glossary of Muslim Terms found at

http://www.digiserve.com/mystic/Muslim/glossary.html

Iblis (إبليس): The figure of Iblis in Islam is similar to that of Satan in Christianity. Although Iblis was an angelic being, his vision couldn't penetrate the outward form of a thing in order to apprehend its inward meaning. When Adam (the first human) was created, God commanded Iblis and all the other angels to prostrate themselves before Adam. Iblis refused to bow down to this new creation of God. Iblis reasoned to himself that he was superior to Adam since he was made of fire while Adam was only made of clay. In this one act of defiance Iblis introduced the sins of pride, envy, and disobedience into the world. When confronted by God, Iblis refused to take any responsibility for his sins; instead he accused God of leading him astray.

I guess Iblis forgot that clay hardens when exposed to fire. Tsk, tsk...

Anyway, I noticed other references to tattoos worn by Muslim equivalents of "satan worshippers" or, "Iblis worshippers", though I could unearth no pictures of this. I'm curious if Larson discovered the Iblis Tattoo and placed it on the medallion. Otherwise, it seems nothing more than a curious random design on a piece of costuming that has no more purpose than to offset Adama's medallion.

So, without further ado, the Medallion study, including some enhanced DVD screen caps and my Adobe Illustrator rendition of it:

Incidentally, I came across a curious picture in the Encyclopedia Galactica. Now, I know that book is full of flaws and inaccuracies. One flaw took me quite by surprise and I'm wondering why I hadn't caught on before. Under "Borays", there are several pictures. One of them, however, didn't appear to be a Boray! With "War of the Gods" still fresh in my mind it came to me instantly. It is the costume used at the end of the episode to represent Iblis' true form! Interesting how it's dressed in a black cloak. It seems the producers intended to reverse-project a negative image of the costume so that the cloak would appear to match Iblis' white cloak. I love the definition of the face in this picture. A shame that there are no others and that it's misplaced in the book. As a side note, another strange error is that they spelled "Iblis" as "Ibley" and have no picture of Patrick MacNee!

Here's the pic. Enjoy!

Still working on the Adama medallions. That's the hardest one to find. More on that later...

cyland props · August 14th, 2004, 06:28 PM

Just kinda wanted to drop by and mention that I believe that some information was taken from:

http://p082.ezboard.com/fpropreplica...picID=84.topic

http://p082.ezboard.com/fpropreplica...tart=1&stop=20

Where we have been discussing this.