A BSG update should have been easy!!!

WXM · March 3rd, 2003, 05:12 AM

Hi everybody!

This is my first posting here. My only activity with any BSG bbs's was giving a vote on each of those two important polls a short while back on sci-fi (I heard of this whole issue via StarshipBuilder.com). I wrote a longer version of this letter to mail back then, but I kinda knew it wasn't ready then so I held off. Last weekend I heard the new call for mailing to Universal so I pulled it out again and rewrote/hacked out about 60% of it (it's still probably too long--oh well). Before I present it I'll say where I generally come from on the BSG remake: I am really disappointed with how this whole project has gone thus far. Making a new BSG with all that was in place... well, the project almost designed itself, and in a way to be a big success. Yet... well, you all know how it's evolved. It kind of reminds of ST:Voyager (though it's not the same situation). Logic of drama (and hence full success of the series) dictated something solid as far as the directions they needed to go to satisfy the audience (based on what *they themselves established*) yet they somehow missed the mark anyway and ended up with something that didn't deliver what it should have (to put it nicely). Really too bad.

There are more points I wanted to put in the letter about the BSG remake than those I stated, but as you know it's better to not send them a novel. Maybe I'll spew some of them later if some chatting is inspired by all this. Anyway, here's my letter:
- - -

To Universal Studios by a non-fan (for the past 24 years anyway) of Battlestar Galactica -

Hi! This is a letter about the whole Battlestar Galactica remake issue though note that I am not in league with the fans you have apparently been hearing of/from for a while. I have actually not watched the show at all since it first aired, though back then (when I was a kid) I did watch every episode and had fun doing so, as I did with almost all science fiction films and TV shows back then. Up to the point of writing and sending out this letter I have never communicated with the BSG fan base. Also, I am not a friend, relative, etc. of anyone who will gain in some way by your studio (or whomever) doing what I recommend below. I am just a generic sci-fi TV series/film fan and a model builder, and it was through my looking at a sci-fi modeling web site that I came across this whole issue, one which prompted me to write this letter to you (the first of this kind I have written).

To throw in my two cents, I personally am attracted to the idea of a project that uses the old cast (and a couple of shots of the old, original model, which the owner apparently would be willing to allow). To me, that route has much more potential to be interesting and entertaining than another pure remake ala Lost in Space (the movie), The Vanishing, The Haunting, Gone In 60 seconds, Car 54, Invaders From Mars, etc., etc., etc. I know it's not fair to judge a project before it is finished, but with the track record of pure remakes (you surely know I could have made the above list much longer) you can surely understand why I am, as are many others, reluctant to get enthusiastic over a pure remake piece. I would have to hear from a couple of my very picky friends that this pure remake BSG was fantastic before I would consider giving it a chance myself. On the other hand, the idea of having Richard Hatch and others original characters and elements has great appeal to both me and others I've talked to about this whole thing, and I would be greatly interested in seeing something that not only had a real sense of cashing in on the nostalgia factor, but was an update at the same time. It is a shame that you don't see the value of this approach. I believe you're throwing away elements that could give this update project an edge over the myriad other "updates" done since the late 70's. Isn't it the high point of a remake the cameo by one of the original actors? Well, you could have that tenfold with your Battlestar Galactica project if you used all that is seemingly available to you. Most remakes don't have such an opportunity. I would think that you would want to do something to make your project stand out from the crowd in a positive way. I guess I am here to try to let you see that the interest of someone who is not one of a handful of hardcore Battlestar Galactica fans was piqued by the earlier production ideas.

The fact that Richard Hatch has done so much on his own for this franchise after its demise...: he was just an actor on a show that got cancelled after one season, and he could have easily left it behind as so many other actors do, but he instead stayed with it, went on to write novels and apparently made a trailer that generated a lot of buzz (I never saw this, but you probably know more than a bit about it already). That is admirable, and all that alone would make me really interested in checking out a project involving him. Again, I'm not a relative of the guy, I've never met him, have no real desire to meet him. I would just like to have a sci-fi show/film series to look forward to watching as I've basically given up on Star Trek and Star Wars (I was a huge fan of both before they lost their heart years ago--I pitched to Paramount for ST:Voyager but I don't watch Enterprise and thought ST:Nemesis was too soul-less to want to view more than once). I guess it's a matter of heart to me. Richard Hatch has proven that he cares about Battlestar Galatica, and knowing that some level of heart is behind a project is a bit of a lure to me. And I can't help but feel that I'm far from alone on this.

I guess that sums up what I wanted to say. I hope this was of some interest to you. Thanks for listening and good luck to you and your projects.

- Will M.

jewels · March 3rd, 2003, 07:04 AM

Great post Will, Great letter!! Welcome to CF!

Jewels

peter noble · March 3rd, 2003, 07:15 AM

Welcome Will, and a great post!

All the best,

Peter

Stevew · March 3rd, 2003, 07:23 AM

Indeed Will and Welcome. Don't be shy
Steve

Titon · March 3rd, 2003, 07:43 AM

Welcome Will and thank you for once again reiterating why a reimagination is not the way to go.

If only Hollywood would realize.........but then again maybe they've finally fell off there high wagon and are begining to realize just what they have.

cobrastrikelead · March 3rd, 2003, 12:06 PM

Great Post. I agree with you on a lot, if not all , of your points.

KJ · March 3rd, 2003, 01:30 PM

Welcome and not bad post either thanks for the news!

KJ

WXM · March 3rd, 2003, 05:26 PM

I came up with another (not quite on-target) example of the way the new studio team(s) could have looked at this project. Everyone brings up Star Trek the Motion Picture, but another one is Macross, the TV series that was upgraded into a big budget movie (which I'm sure some of you are familiar with Macross). It's not quite the same because that movie was a remake and it was done right on the tail of the TV series, but the upgrading they did on the design and production was great, made you go "Oooo!" and "Aaahh!" I get the impression that this is the reaction that Mr. Hatch's trailer brought to many folks who saw it. Since there is 25 years between BG (TOS) and a continuation, you can upgrade the things that, from new Hollywood's standpoint, could use an updating (there are some elements of the original BG that can probably be categorized as needing it), and (this isn't an attack!) even some of the canon can be fudged with slightly, all without batting an eyelash from the perpectives of both writing difficulty (lack of) and in keeping it a 90% plus faithful to canon continuation, one which would surely please almost all of the harcore fans as well as being captivating to anyone tuning in for the first time. Again, all that any reasonable studio heads might see as being "wrong" with the old BG [i]could be easily be corrected with a Richard continuation that would keep the real fans happy[/]. IT BOGGLES THE MIND THAT THEY DON'T SEE THAT!

I admit I love some of RDM's stuff, as I think some of you do (or used to), but without even reading his BG script I wouldn't tune in to this thing that is supposedly in the works. The amount of research (assuming what I've heard on these boards is correct) he apparently put into refreshing himself on the original is pathetic. There are some writers who are truly GREAT, which usualy means their track record of consistency in their turning out great material is high. RDM is not such a person (MI:2 was TRASH, garbage, junk, even though it didn't need to be). And that whole thing on the sci-fi board with the hoard of "Moore supporters"... that was surreal, unbelievable. If I had seen something like that in a work of fiction, I would've had to have said to myself, "Okay, time to turn on suspension of disbelief." I think it's accurate for me to say that it actually made me kind of both saddened and sickened. I feel sorry for all of you who endured seeing that fiasco!

Not that I'm anybody, but I say have faith. Hopefully others you've never heard from before also sent in letters that'll help Mr. Diller and co. see the light. Though I am a pretty cynical person often, I still say that logic and common sense have a decent enough chance of prevailing here. There are many people involved in the new BG, which means that (unlike the Star Wars franchise) there are many brains in which the "Okay, something isn't right with this" flag can click and wave and it'll result in something tangible.

Got to go to work. Maybe I'll have heard thoughts from some of you when I get back. Again, thanks for the warm welcome!

ojai22 · March 3rd, 2003, 08:01 PM

Welcome, Will. You speak from the heart, and that's part of loving BSG. I really enjoyed your posts and hope to hear much more from you.

ojai22

Rhade · March 3rd, 2003, 09:21 PM

^ Yes, indeed, you make excellent points, Will.

Welcome to the board!

Rhade

WXM · March 4th, 2003, 03:02 AM

...I'll just keep spewing, in case one of the panicking studio persons above (if such a thing does happen) needs ideas and wants a single thread from which to get a bunch ideas

The ship. This is the one place where the beefy-iness factor for an update can be greatly exploited. The model didn't get utilized enough in the original (that is if you don't include seeing the same shots of it over and over) and that is a shame, and I, along with most everyone else here surely, believe the original model should be used for at least a couple of really nice shots in the update if the update is going to use primarily CGI (I'm ignoring the idea for the moment that the possibility of an entirely different ship design exists).

The model of the Battlestar Galactica was designed and built to be the centerpiece of the expensive show. You may know this, but the model itself actually has a cult following. There are several people around the world working on their own Battlestars, accurate reproductions of the original studio model. This is no small undertaking as the Battlestar model was built by none other than the effects house that worked on the original Star Wars (before it was called "Episode IV: A New Hope"), right after Star Wars. This very talented group of model builders set out to build the grandest starship model ever created, and basically succeeded (depending on who you talk to- -some ties/runner-ups would include the motion picture Enterprise and the Executor "super star destroyer" from Empire Strikes Back.)

The thing has already been designed and built and it has even been restored. Why start from scratch when there's a work that is the result of so much time, effort and cost sitting there with nothing to do? If you wanted to add a little to the exterior to show that it had maybe gone through some modifications over the 25 years, fine by me (and surely a piece of cake to accomplish too). The original already looked pretty "mean." With new firing effects alone added to this same ol' ship (did the R.H. trailer have something like this?)...well, I think you can imagine how neat it could be...except for Stevew. Judging by your avatar I get the impression you have no imagination when it comes to picturing Battlestar Galactica ships. (<- my sense of humor at work

)

It's been a while since I looked some of the above info up and my memory could be fuzzy on some of it. If there are any experts out there who'd like to correct me on something or would like to add to this, please do! This is 3D Gladiators after all!

(P.S.- Am I just rehashing things that people have already said a bunch in the past, by the way?)

Stevew · March 4th, 2003, 07:16 AM

---I think you can imagine how neat it could be...except for Stevew. Judging by your avatar I get the impression you have no imagination when it comes to picturing Battlestar Galactica ships. ----

Hi WXM and welcome. Just curious what you mean. I have done a fleet of models in the BSG style using the Hobbs sketches as a guide. My love for the show and for modeling compelled me to do it. I render to show the model and let those who are good at it do all the pretty stuff as it is not my thing. I just make models LOL

Steve

Micheleh · March 4th, 2003, 11:43 AM

I think he is being funny- sort of saying that you have 'no imagination at ships' (it's only photorealistic, c'mon), in the same vein of saying DaVinci, didn't he paint or something?

ojai22 · March 4th, 2003, 12:02 PM

Will,

We have a petition we'd like you to sign. It's asking Richard Hatch to release the trailer to the internet. Go here:

https://www.petitiononline.com/RH2002/petition.html

We want to let Richard know how much we'd like to see it. Thanks.

jewels · March 4th, 2003, 02:11 PM

Steve:
I read that as: you HAVE the actual ships. Well the CGI models at least, of the whole of Hobb's fleet. You don't have to imagine them: you just open a file of one of those labors of love and faster than you can say "photoshop" there's a ship. LOL! All the imagining already happened when you were modeling: they are "real". You need to post (again) the latest urls for where you've posted them. Such wonderfully mind-blowing excellence needs shared.

Don't leave out the ISS either.

Will, visit the art threads here: LOTS of wonderful stuff. Enormous amounts of Trek stuff.

WXM · March 4th, 2003, 05:14 PM

Sorry! Micheleh had it; it was indeed me being funny and complimentary (or trying to be) in my weird way. What your avatar alone shows is awesome (and I was pretty sure, from seeing a thread on this site a while back that you were responsible for what's in that image--i.e., that it wasn't something you'd lifted from somewhere else) and it's a great, very canon looking BSG design it is (not easy to do I would imagine!)--and it shows such the complete opposite of someone who puts no thought/imagination into the BSG ships. I thought my little parenthesical note would make it clear that I was being funny but...blah blah blah. You get it now I guess. Again, sorry! Yes, I agree with jewels; reposting the bigger images again would be cool!

Jewels: I have looked on the WIP and completed images threads here at 3D-G more than a few times. One thing that was always fun was watching the WIP's of people's refit Enterprises (Dennis B's and JasonA's come to mind). The first time I came over was from seeing to a pic posted on TrekBBS "fan art" that blew me away (of the Enterprise-D bridge) by someone who posts at 3D-G all the time, though I doubt anyone who looks in those threads often knows who I'm talking about (<-my humor again

).

ojai22: As far as signing the "Release the trailer!" petition, I'm not sure I am ready to do that. I'll explain: Mr. Hatch will only be able to release the trailer once. He knows that, and if he hasn't released it yet I'll assume he has good reasons, probably feels that the right moment isn't quite here yet... so I think I'll hold off on giving him a nudge on that myself at this point as I'm sure he already knows that many folks want to see it. But thanks for the link. If I change my mind (which could well happen)...

To all: You see the title of this thread. What is an element that you imagine being in place in an updated 25 year later continuation from the original series? A specific change in the look of the sets?... or the uniforms (or maybe they've phased uniforms out)? A story element? Basically, what's was one of the things/ideas that pops into your head for a continuation when you see the title of this thread?

Stevew · March 4th, 2003, 05:38 PM

WXM
I was not upset, just curious, I hate to missunderstand. Here is the link to the fleet
https://www.renderosity.com/gallery.e...key=1046824572

Clk on the thumb for a large pik. If you like any feel free to use as you will
Steve

Muffit · March 4th, 2003, 06:58 PM

Many warm welcomes Will

Your thoughts are good and you will find many agree with you. Some of us (myself included) are downright heart-rent hoping for a continuation that faithfully continues the heart and soul of BSG. You will probably hear many times how similar this situation is to Star Trek TOS. I cannot imagine a world without Star Trek IV.

Again, welcome to Colonial Fleets

WXM · March 5th, 2003, 01:06 AM

- Stevew: I think I had seen one of the BSG ship pics of your. Dang, you really do have a whole fleet! It looks like 2000 and 2001 were busy times for you. Very impressive! The 3D-G WIP forum, as well as those on Sci-Fi Meshes don't have nearly as much fun stuff like that these days as they used to it seems. Don't know what happened--or maybe I'm just missing it all.

Seeing work like that reminds me of how disheartening it is sometimes that there is so little on-screen 'canon' time for many of these sci-fi shows. Some fans have done some great ships (Anarion's U.S.S. Churchill Trek ship as an example)--if only they could get some screen time with a great story and cast behind them.

- Thanks Muffit!

- I've been looking over some of the other threads here and, to be honest, I feel a little in over my head. You guys and gals obviously know your stuff when it comes to this subject. I've come to realize that I will never be able to compete...therefore I've decided to leave the Shaolin temple. I will allow my hair to grow...and I will start eating meat...and--oops, wrong website/forum!

March 5th, 2003, 04:42 AM

Stevew, i just saw your "BIG G REBORN" and it is excelent work.

Now, i know this is a matter of taste, but for me, the GALACTICA is still the pretiest, scarryest(sp?), impressive, beautiful, ..., spaceship ever designed. Don't you guys think?

WXM · March 25th, 2003, 05:49 PM

NEW RANT IN AN OLD THREAD

To any PTB involved with the BSG update:

I am basically a Trek fan, not a BSG fan, but despite supposedly having a former award-winning Star Trek writer on board, I will not give a remake even a minute's chance, not even a glance. I would be very interested in a continuation, however. It's continuation or bust, not only for me but for many people who like sci-fi in general. This universe (BSG's) has been established. Everyone I talk to in-person, none of whom are hardcore BSG fans (yesterday it was a 21 year old girl) ALL GROAN in dread when I bring up your apparent plans for a re-imagining/remake. Get it through your PTB heads: you are absolute fools to even consider a pure remake! You demand evidence that remakes are bad business? Here: look at the budget and advertising costs of Willard 2003, then see what it made its opening weekend (not even one fifth of its budget alone), and add it to your (Hollywood's) steaming pile of wretched, loser REMAKES (this list is looooong as everybody knows). REMAKE<-Yes, that word is synonymous with "creative and financial FAILURE." To state the obvious: from a viewer's perspective, creative bankruptcy is not something to seek out and look forward to. Give us something interesting. Original mixed with new is interesting. A remake by the writer of Mission Impossible 2 is not giving us sci-fi fans something to look forward to. DO A CONTINUATION-ESQUE UPDATE of Battlestar Galactica, DO NOT DO A FROM-SCRATCH [color=Mr. Hanky brown]REMAKE[\color].

Whew. Okay, thanks for listening.

-WXM

the3rdhuman · March 25th, 2003, 06:12 PM

Jumped all over you at SCIFI board, what a deek I was.

I can now appreciate your style and where you're coming from, please accept my apology.

Stevew · March 25th, 2003, 06:27 PM

Thanks guys. Is this not a great place. I have started a fleet redue in Solid works. The ranger is done and the guardian is half. I can't wait to get them out but getting to LW from SW takes almost as long as the model LOL They are more detailed than tha new defender, I hope they go over well S

WXM · March 25th, 2003, 06:38 PM

the3rdhuman:

No apologies necessary from you. My apologies for the inadvertant instilling of feelings of "someone else is attacking us now!" in you and kj2 and the others. I evoked reaction, which was my goal, though it was intended to evoke such unrepentingly in certain people who have tangible interest in how well their entertainment property will perform--as my post above illustrates in such a calm manner

.

Stevew:

I've looked in on the 3DGlads WIP Forum off and on recently and, not to be mean, but I find little that catches my attention these days. If you put up there a even a single "BSG Cruiser LW Conversion" (name it better than that of course) thread I think it would attract a lot of attention--and the original BG ship design feel should be getting attention now more than ever (so that it doesn't get horribly changed in a..."update"), eh?

-WXM

Stevew · March 25th, 2003, 06:44 PM

Not following you 3DGlads WIP Forum ?
S

WXM · March 25th, 2003, 07:05 PM

Stevew, this is what I mean; start a thread here maybe:

https://www.3dgladiators.com/forums/f...p?&forumid=326

Stevew · March 25th, 2003, 07:13 PM

Right now I keep them in my renderosoty gallery. Most have been done in Truspace and others have done conversions to LW and 3DS. I leave making then to those to the ones who make them pretty. Fabio did some renders of the earley ones
https://stevew.3dgladiators.com/images/libranpatrol.jpg
S

WXM · March 25th, 2003, 07:58 PM

Stevew, can you pass on to Fabio that someone who often wanders through the 3DG "WIP" and "finished art" forums requests that a "revisting" thread of your work be created (and a.s.a.p.)? Seriously, I have been lurking on the just-mentioned forums as well as the "sci-fi meshes.com" and LWG sites for quite a while and I never came across your meshes/images until I created this thread earlier this month and you presented that radiosity link. Your meshes and the work behind these images (planets, lighting, etc.) are wonderful! And, IMO, at the moment there's a dearth of such wonderful stuff to look at, not only on 3DG, but on all the big 3D sci fi sites. For the general cause of BSG and for the enjoyment of folks who just like to see nice sci-fi artwork, I think reviving these images now would be timely, even if it is solely via a link in the 3DG finished art forum. If you feel too modest about it to act yourself, I understand, but before saying "naw" (not that you will) at least pass this message on to Fabio (and Titon?) and see what they think. Once again, your work (and Fabio's and Titon's) is great, and now would be a good time for all of the original BSG designs to be as appreciated as possible. Many folks need to see this stuff (again), for the sakes of both BSG and for just plain enjoyment! Hopefully others will chime in here as well to support this idea...

-Will

jewels · March 25th, 2003, 08:06 PM

That Librian Patrol is impressive. OK, now I understand what "making them pretty means" Bravo, Fabio.

All of you blow me away!
J.

Stevew · March 25th, 2003, 08:07 PM

Will all the guys read this bd, I am not one to do these things, I keep the radiosity gallery just for show. Plesae if you want to promote this and any of my stuff is usefull, feel free to use what you want. Titon is involved at this time I think. Warrior may want to do something, he has some nice stuff. You can private email Fabio, he was doing something with the new Defender but he is real busy as am I in the reconstruction.
I just make models LOL but there are a number of others here that have some great stuff. Did you check the colonial art section?
Steve