The Thirteenth Tribe Is Found!

[mannycam]

The Thirteenth Tribe are all of the Original Shows Fan base WOW!!!
They are lost.... NO MORE!!! Thank you Mr Glen Larson for making me a better person. Then and Now

To fans of this new mini series:
Its not that the original Galatica fans object so much to the new series, after all they wouldnt have watched the first Episode if they werent going to at least give it a chance. We saw the trailers for one whole year. So we knew of the basic changes. We also knew it was going to be a totally different approach. So I for one said well its still Sci Fi. The original will just have to wait some more. So I like many others sat with an open mind to see this endeavor. Ive read the new vision from this writer and dont agree with it but again its still Scifi. After seeing the first 15 mins. I hated it as a script, story and as Scifi. We all know the bad things that we humans have and dont need it pushed in our faces. We need to be reminded of the good, of the positive values we all have. Not the negative. The Galactica story was not about reality, didnt focus on the bad things but instead showed us the dignity and self respect that we humans all strive for. Dont show me what I am, show me what I can be. Galactica showed us that sons do still respect and look up to their fathers. That faith is or should be part of our collective makeup as humans. That there is hope in dispair. That rank and authority do go beyond the color of your skin. That sex need not be exploited to gain an audience. That good story telling is not a lost art. If I wanted a documentary I'd tune in to the History Channel, I watch the SciFi channel to escape reality. Not to find flawed humans at the ass end of space. Or some viewpoint on our military. 2001 was the most boring piece of film I had ever seen. And Ridley Scott directed Black Hawk Down.. inspired from a true story. These are the 2 factors that made that movie a hit. Galactica fueled the imagination. Took us away from this mundane world as did Star Wars. Again for reality I watch the History channel.
For sex, the playboy channel. A whole world was destroyed, sex would be the last thing on everyones minds INCLUDING BALTAR. A little payback would be the order of the day. And as a Scifi fan I want to see all of the action not a few mushroom clouds and a fade to white.
In all reality the real fans werent given a choice, Scifi could have taken an internet poll before reaching any decision. No choice in the matter....no consideration as was your new vision on this thing. I hope your new fan base will be as loyal to their new "Galactica" as the older fans were to the original.

[BST]

Originally posted by mannycam

The Galactica story was not about reality, didnt focus on the bad things but instead showed us the dignity and self respect that we humans all strive for. Dont show me what I am, show me what I can be. Galactica showed us that sons do still respect and look up to their fathers. That faith is or should be part of our collective makeup as humans.

Very good words, mannycam. I wholeheartedly agree with this point of view.

IMO, Moore's mindset, for the mini, left out this part of the equation and replaced it with "We are the failed creation". The mini leans toward the glass being "half-empty" while, TOS leaned toward the glass being "half-full"!

[mannycam]

Thank you so much for sharing my thoughts. I do like your analogy as well. Glad to see there are lots of us out there.

[Muffit]

Welcome to Colonial Fleets Mannycam! Good words, that's exactly what the mini missed so evidently, faith and hope, and family values. I too watch (and read) scifi to help me dream of what man can be, not what he is. It is our aspirations that help us reach the future we all want, mankind united in goodwill, together reaching for the stars.

If we were unable to get along even with our own compatriots (parents/children, fellow soldiers) as in the mini, how could we hope to aspire to such great things as space voyaging?

[shiningstar]

Welcome to the club Mannycam.

I like your way of thinking.

[nightscape2112]

agreed, and it is very nice to meet you. i hope you enjoy your time here.

have a good one,

nightscape

[Charybdis]

Nicely said, mannycam...

I prefer to see the glass of TOS as FULL!!!!!!!

Long live the original!!!!

Originally posted by mannycam

Galactica showed us that sons do still respect and look up to their fathers.

Don't need TV to "show" me that--had it in real life. Four generations of us all on one block, living in houses that we had lived in since five generations ago.

That faith is or should be part of our collective makeup as humans. That there is hope in dispair.

Silly me, and I went to a "church" for those things.

That rank and authority do go beyond the color of your skin.

I got to see that in my father's National Guard unit, actually.

That sex need not be exploited to gain an audience.

Captain Kangaroo had quite an audience for many years.

That good story telling is not a lost art.

And Hallmark Hall specials didn't exist in the 1970s?


I'm not saying that the show didn't have the features attributed to it, but it was not unique in those features, nor was it the only place to experience such things. There is a very broad world out there, and squalor and nobility mysteriously always manage to appear exactly where one looks for them.

The noble spirit sees nobility everywhere.

[mannycam]

I do believe youve missed the point here, We were discussing Galactica not TV or life in the 70s. Mainly the new mini vs the old series. But I do see your point and do appreciate it.

But I do hope youre Orig BSG fan and not a mini-series spy.
Positive shield NOW!!!:bash:

[mannycam]

Great to see so many of us out there....and thanks to all for a warm welcome...relatively new to the forum but was in my twenties when Galactica was brand new and loved every minute of it for anyone who did grow up in the 70s it was a time of rebellion, free sex and rocknroll and any postive role models were welcome...Charybdis, Nightscape, ShiningStar BST and Muffit...thanks guys loveya.

[shiningstar]

Dogface I went to church too and knew
what respect should be shown to whom.

As for authority , I WAS in the
Military, as my Mother, father, brother, grandfather,
etc ...............

As for good story telling I was kind of was SICK of the
hallmark specials.

I watch Battle Star Gallactica because I enjoy seeing
what I practice in real life, and I happen to like scifi.

Mannycam welcome to the club house.

Originally posted by mannycam
I do believe youve missed the point here, We were discussing Galactica not TV or life in the 70s. Mainly the new mini vs the old series. But I do see your point and do appreciate it.

But I do hope youre Orig BSG fan and not a mini-series spy.
Positive shield NOW!!!:bash:

Well, how very "open-minded" of you to presume that it is not possible to like both.

I watched every episode of the original series as it aired in the USA. I built every plastic model put out with a BSG theme. I was genuinely unhappy that my mother thought it more important to sew me a "real" coat for winter rather than Colonial cold-weather gear. I liked and like the old series quite nicely, thank you.

I also like the new work. Believe it or not, some of use exist who have that capacity.

[jewels]

Dogface: it's hard to see that from what looks like the tone of your previous post. Sarcasm is especially challenging to carry off well online: the media just lacks the nuances that something as basic as body language makes clear in in-person interpersonal communication.

[shiningstar]

You are the one who came on this board and
attacked someone ELSES post, and NOW
when others responded to the negative TONE
of YOUR post to that person;
.......... you are trying to play the role of Victim.

[mannycam]

Ponder this Dogface, what if all of the true BSG fans that were watching the series in the 70s were the thirteenth tribe lost to the Galactica. And all thru their wondrous adventures we were there as the viewer secretly watching their every move. Rooting for them to find us. Desperately we would tune in every week trying to send them a sign, a star to let them know where we are. But alas because the technological wonders present in the 70s we were not allowed.
Then as of out of the blue, our precious Galactica is ripped from us, we've lost all communication with our beloved cast. Is this the end of our struggles with our fearless crew? Tune in... next week.............Sadly Dogface next week never came.
We the original fans were bitter, angry how dare they rip away our beloved Galactica with no obvious reason. Now 20 odd yareans later. Communications are restored, guys we're getting a signal...I believe its the Galactica. WHAT? It cant be.....but wait its not the Galactica... its totally different...I dont recognize anyone...But we're the thirteenth tribe...it must be them...no...no, it is something else....GALACTICA REIMAGINED. With sadness and tears we look to one another and say.... our beloved Galactica IS lost.
We were given this mini series to comfort us in our recent loss. May your ORIGINAL rest in peace.

Dogface hopefully you can see why many of us are bitter. Its like ordering something online and knowing what it should be and then getting something else, the same name but something else.

And its not true, I did see a few things I liked in the new mini. I like James Olmos, hes not Loorne Greene and if I were a little boy or girl wanting a story read to me I would much prefer Loornes deep warm voice to Olmos .. but Loorne is gone. Olmos could fill that role though given the chance. I liked the female president shes a great actress as well. (Dances with Wolves) Also the guy that was left behind or who actually gave up his chair for an older person when Boomer and him landed on the home planet would have made a more impressive substitute for Hatchs Charismatic Apollo. It is something you would expect Apollo to do and he looked more like a take charge individual than the one they chose for the part. I liked the space battles they were done nicely, but it only showed StarDOE most of time and left you feeling alone, no sense of comradry it almost appeared that she was the only one flying most of the time.

Its NOT the 70s anymore and we the thirteenth tribe DO have the technology to express our loss and our observations on this new mini series called Galactica. We were given spinach and told to eat it.
I personally dont like spinach.

But to sum it up, Good story telling is timeless: 2 menacing robots, Cylons mind you, walk in, a tall blonde comes over and suddenly kisses the representative, this is what opened this new mini, by the lords of cobol have we lost our minds? Our sense of story telling???? Send in another.....that Larson guy. And the band plays on.

[shiningstar]

Good post Mannycam keep them coming

Originally posted by mannycam
[B]Ponder this Dogface, what if all of the true BSG fans that were watching the series in the 70s were the thirteenth tribe lost to the Galactica.

They weren't. No matter how much play pretend one might do, they still weren't, and they aren't now.

It was a TV show. Nobody who watched it was a member of a "thirteenth tribe of humanity". No such thing actually exists. It was a TV show. It was not history. It was not the tale of a real nation. It was a TV show, a fictional TV show. One thing I never lost sight of, even when I was a child, was the difference between fiction and reality.

Originally posted by mannycam
But to sum it up, Good story telling is timeless: 2 menacing robots, Cylons mind you, walk in, a tall blonde comes over and suddenly kisses the representative, this is what opened this new mini, by the lords of cobol have we lost our minds? Our sense of story telling????

Sounds to me like "sense of story telling" hasn't been lost at all.

[mannycam]

Thank you Shining star, but I do believe we've gone to deep for Dogface here in this forum.

I do admit my response was a bit theatrical and ambiguous and I do apologize since its obvious I did a fly-by with you.

adjective: having more than one possible meaning (Example: "Ambiguous words")

So maybe a more direct response is in order here. I and many others like me did not like or want a re-imagining. Why? Because this might be all we get, when what we really wanted to see is the original story continued. Dated of course but not re-imagined. If we new we were definitely getting the original as well, I dont think fans would have been so harsh toward this remake. Its just the idea of getting just this, and no continuation to the original story.
I believe this response is more to your understanding, no implications intended. Not here to offend anyone just stating my views. I am a mature adult and know the difference in fantasy and reality, some of us simply like to live our lives in a bit of both them.
There is a difference I might add, in being an Original Battlestar TV fan and being an Original Battlestar Story fan.
Of course you can be fans of both the mini and the original but only one kind of fan for the original story. You either are in that universe or this one. In that universe the story hasnt been completed yet. In this universe, the mini , everything except for the name has changed. This is what I mean about the thirteenth tribe, there is no 13th tribe in this version. At least not in the Larson scheme of things. And thats the one a lot us want back. NUF SAID. Peace to you brother.

[jewels]

Originally posted by mannycam
But I do hope youre Orig BSG fan and not a mini-series spy.
Positive shield NOW!!!:bash:

Manny, in a way I'm glad you brought this issue up. It really bugs me when I see it.

There are NO mini-series "spies." That is an old paranoia, whose time is past. The mini is what it is, unless one of us invents a time machine it will not be undone.

1) There are mini-series fans. People that liked something about the mini. Yep, they are welcome here.
2) There are TOS fans. People that liked something about TOS. They are the backbone here.
3) There are continuation fans. continuation plot direction varies by the individual fan. They are a lot of the passion here.
4) There are rabble rousers folks that get their kicks out of making trouble in discussion forums. Hopefully we take care of those promptly for you.

Adherents to 1, 2 or 3 in any combination are welcome here and their opinion and person are to be respected. Respect doesn't mean agreement it's more like the non-PC definition of tolerance. Letting others have the free mind to believe differently from yourself. Discussing opinions and not attacking persons.

None of those groups 1,2, or 3 are exclusive, a person may belong to any combo of 2 or 3 of them. Anyone belonging to group 4, the rabble-rousers, is not welcome here.

Jewels

[mannycam]

Youre quite right Jewels, I stand corrected and hope you will forgive me. All Galactica fans ARE Galactica fans. Whether theyve taken bits and pieces from each one and formed their own universe. Its all Galactica.

My response was purely automatic you might say, I was attacked and I defended myself instinctively, since I do not like the mini and have seen some harsh remarks from mini lovers against Orig BSG STORY fans, Im sensitive with the Larson concept. Where I do maintain my stand is with the original created by Larson as being the Original story. It cant be called an earlier version It IS Galactica. The mini is a version of the original and any other efforts will be a version. Or as Hollywood would say "Based on the original".

Thanks again Jewels

[jewels]

manny: no problem, it was just an opportunity to put out a perspective that we all need to keep so this place is the peaceful island we want it to be.

I won't even read the main yahoo list emails anymore because they seemed to be on a witchhunt anytime a mini fan showed up after the mini aired. It aired. There are fans. They have the same rights as those of us who hated the script or the mini for what it was not. Doesn't make either group evil. (that rant was directed at the yahoo group, you all are behaving well here.)

[mannycam]

Great to know Jewels and you are right.

[shiningstar]

definately

Originally posted by mannycam
My response was purely automatic you might say, I was attacked [/B]

Rubbish. Complete and utter rubbish. I did not attack you. Were I to attack you, the result would end up with me being immediately banned from the boards. I spoke to your statements and your ideas. I did not personally attack you at all. You, on the other hand, felt free to personally attack me.

Some "tribe" to belong to, where that is ideal behavior...

[BST]

Originally posted by Dogface
They weren't. No matter how much play pretend one might do, they still weren't, and they aren't now.

It was a TV show. Nobody who watched it was a member of a "thirteenth tribe of humanity". No such thing actually exists. It was a TV show. It was not history. It was not the tale of a real nation. It was a TV show, a fictional TV show. One thing I never lost sight of, even when I was a child, was the difference between fiction and reality.

Dogface, a rebuttal is fine. To constantly hammer the same point toward a person can be (and apparently was) perceived as an 'attack'. The "was a child" reference was over the top and not necessary. Your point was made clear by the previous few sentences.

Originally posted by mannycam

I do admit my response was a bit theatrical and ambiguous and I do apologize since its obvious I did a fly-by with you.

adjective: having more than one possible meaning (Example: "Ambiguous words")

So maybe a more direct response is in order here.

...

I believe this response is more to your understanding, no implications intended. Not here to offend anyone just stating my views.

mannycam,

This remark has the feel of being condescending. You may not have intended it that way but, that's how I perceived it and quite possibly, how Dogface perceived it. It was an unnecessary remark.

********

Folks, we need to remember that it is the Issue that is being debated, NOT the participant. References to a person's 'level of understanding', now or 'as a child' are not needed nor welcomed.

Thanks in advance,

BST

[shiningstar]

Thanks for posting Bst

[jewels]

thanks for handling this BST.

Let's see the topic we started with was something about are the original series fans actually the thirteenth tribe? It was sort of an allegorical bent on that as I recall.

Back to your discussion.

If one speaks allegorically, I'd say that restricting membership in the Thirteenth Tribe only to fans of the show misses the point of a Thirteenth Tribe.

Did the fleet go out merely to seek and hook up with an elite, give them powers over all the paeones who surrounded them and merely resembled humanity? Did we anywhere get the impression that only some humans originally came from Kobol and the rest were some sort of benighted, humanoid beasts?

No, the Colonials went out to find a whole planet of people, every one of them, and try to live among all of them. This was not a Gnostic paradigm, where only an elite (self-selecting or not) would be deemed worth of membership in the tribes of humanity. It was all of the people on Earth, those who would embrace the Colonials and those who would reject them, that were still part of the Nation of Humanity (clans together form tribes, tribes together form a nation).

Thus, just like you can't choose your relatives, you can't choose your tribe-mates. Family is family, like it or not. That's part of the primal essence of tribalism--it cannot be simply waved away for the sake of comfort, convenience, or law. It goes to the blood. Indeed, that struck me as one of the major points of the old show--we are all one tribe on this world. We have no ultimate and fundamentally valid basis to separate ourselves into the "true" tribe of humanity and the rest being mere dross. The Twelve Tribes did not dump on each other as a matter of course, nor did they segregate out people into "proper" members of a Tribe and then everybody else who was on the outs.

So, we are all the Thirteenth Tribe. Those whose closets could be used as a Colonial Quartermaster's and those who have taken out their dictionaries and replaced every instance of the word "Green" with "Olmos"--and those of us who are in between--are the Thirteenth Tribe. Family is family, blood is blood.

As an aside:
What to say about the starting narration that assigns possible specific identity to the Thirteenth Tribe as but a single culture upon earth? First, it was spoken as speculation. Second, I'd say that other elements of the series give the lie to the idea that the Thirteenth Tribe is anything other than all of humanity upon earth--there is no Gnostic separation into the Perfecti (Thirteenth Tribe) and anthropoid animals (everybody else).

[Darth Marley]

Ouch,Gnostic bashing.
While I agree that some of the Perfecti,last used by the Cathari sect as far as I know,do seem to have condesending tones,I find some value in thier faith.
You seem to have knowledge of comparative religion. Perhaps we should take this chat elsewhere.