Star Trek Lawsuit

[Kai]

I hated Voyager. My opinion...
as for the flaws in trek.. who cares? it's a show.. but a show thats grown stale and boring with each try at keeping the fans paying for stuff..

as for waiting 25 years? LOL I'd wait longer for a good show.. and have done..

anyway.. back to prepping for Doctor Who - 40 years in the Tardis..

[BST]

Very interesting discussion.

** Possible Spoiler **



FWIW, my thoughts regarding the "success" or "failure" of ST:Nemesis, SW II: AOTC, or ST: ENT revolve primarily around each show's timeline in relation to the rest of its franchise and also to market saturation.

What I mean is this -- ENT and AOTC are similar in the sense that they are 'prequels' thus, you know that eventually, with ENT, the United Federation of Planets will come into existence with fleets of starships exploring the vast reaches of space and protecting the member planetary systems of the Federation. You know that eventually, with AOTC, that Anakin Skywalker will become Darth Vader, that Palpatine will become the Emperor, and that Anakin's son, Luke, will destroy the Emperor. For some folks, some of the lustre of a particular show/franchise is lost, if you know the eventual outcome. For me, I enjoy the shows because I want to see how they get there.

Regarding "market saturation", and not counting ST:TOS, Star Trek has been on the airwaves, in its various incarnations, for most of the last 16 years. This doesn't count syndication. The franchise may have reached a point that no matter what was created next, it would not do as well, simply because people were growing just a bit weery of it. ST may have been better off not going directly into ENT until several years AFTER the end of Voyager. On the other hand, Star Wars has only appeared as 5 full-length motion pictures. Add to that at least a 15-16 year lag between ROTJ and TPM and you have an appetite for viewership.

I say this, as a very dedicated and long time fan of the ST franchise (32 years). I will definitely stand amongst those who feel that Roddenberry, etal, "wrote the book" on Continuity. But, at the same time, I also realize that one can only expect to harvest a crop on ground that is fertile and every so often, you've got to let that ground lie dormant and nurture it back to fertility. Otherwise, what led to growth, in the first place, is all depleted.

*puts pitchfork and straw hat away*

BST

[Kai]

'If you don't like Enterprise maybe you haven't given it a proper chance yet'

seen them all.
why? cos I gave it a chance.. but after the whole 'transporter dream' episode I realised that they need new writers, new producers and to take this show in a whole new direction. right now, it's wasted old and stale.

I'd rather watch re-runs of Doctor Who (laughing at the effects) or the new BBC show - Strange. Watch for it. Well written, well thought out and well acted. it'll open your eyes....

[Sorrento]

Originally posted by Kai
seen them all.
why? cos I gave it a chance.. but after the whole 'transporter dream' episode I realised that they need new writers, new producers and to take this show in a whole new direction. right now, it's wasted old and stale.

I'd rather watch re-runs of Doctor Who (laughing at the effects) or the new BBC show - Strange. Watch for it. Well written, well thought out and well acted. it'll open your eyes....

Well then, what do you suggest they do with Enterprise. Answerign something like "I want it to be removed" is not what I am looking for because you say its bad and that needs good writers... so you probably have a suggestion of the direction, in your opinion, the show must take. I still think Activision suit is way out of order.

As for Doctor Who, Strange or any other BBC show, I wish I could see them. I remember Doctor Who from around 20+ years ago from the local TV, and what a show that was; it had a terrible production as well as a very creative writing, which of course made any flaw unoticed.

Right now the only two shows, other than Enterprise, that have caught my eye are Gilmore Girls and Everwood... at least nothing else before them was similar.

And please Kai, take a look at Elite Force 2... that if you play games. You will like it. Also if you liked DS9 war then you will love Armada(s).

Sorrento

[Sorrento]

Originally posted by BST
Very interesting discussion.
BST

BST, what are you thoughts on Enterprise and the Activision games, and after that about Activision law suit?

I like your explanation and point of view of the whole deal, specially when you talk about the movie SW: TPM... in my opinion that is the only way the movie could be mentioned, because the real name is really awful. As for the Star Trek universe, I still don't know why I like each series regardless of how bad they might be.

For example, I consider DS9 to be the worse series of all. The war with the Dominion destroyed it, and almost took down the whole franchise. As for Voyager, in my opinion it was a return to the "non soap-opera" type of episodes TNG gave us. With each episode Voyager put a whole new deal, not a continuation of the last episode (to a certain point of course), which was something TOS had and many people loved.

Perhaps this was what many people didn't like about Voyager and liked about DS9 and TNG. For me TNG was ok even with the story line soap opera like, it was very good and a whole new deal for the ST universe, Then came DS9 and after a few seasons I got tired with it; again the big war was something ST is not about.

Enterprise right now is a clean break from the two styles, hopefully will remain that way. For me the whole series has been very well written, with each episode detailing a story not before told in another ST series... with the exception of some of them, specially the Klingon ones.

You see opposite to the Star Wars prequels Enterprise did explore some things that were left unexplained from TOS. While Star Wars TPM didn't told us who the Sith were or how a Princess was "elected" by the people (which for me sounded really wrong), Enterprise is exploring why Kirk never thrusted the Klingons or why the Romulans are so private about their stuff. I wanted to know about this, and Paramount decided to indulge me.

Btw, WHO ARE THE SITH??? LOL, if I didn't play Dark Forces 2 Mystery of the Sith I wouldn't have a clue... and I still don't know much about those and why they were "nearly extinct".

Sorrento

[BST]

Sorrento,

I actually liked ENT when it first aired and watched nearly the 1st season without interruption. Then, other commitments kept getting in the way and my Wednesday night TV viewing habits basically went out the window. I haven't seen much of the 2nd season although, I would like to go back and see what I've missed.

To paraphrase what I mentioned earlier, watching a prequel is a bit anti-climactic because you know what will eventually happen in the overall storyline. What I enjoy and what would keep my interest in a prequel is the actual journey in getting to the present day, i.e., ENT eventually getting to the ST:TOS timeframe. In the case of Star Wars, I'll go out on a limb and say that Star Wars III will probably be the highest grossing and, hopefully, best of the 2 trilogies. Its potential is unlimited since it is THE ONE that ties everything together.

***

Regarding Activision's lawsuit against Viacom, their contention that Viacom is not marketing the Star Trek franchise agressively enough is much like the old adage, "beauty is in the eyes of the beholder". The only way, of course, that this lawsuit will be settled will be to determine what specific responsibilities Viacom had with regards to marketing the franchise. Did the contract call for a specific number of new shows and movies over its 10-year life span? Your guess is as good as mine. My gut feeling is that Activision realizes that they made a mistake in agreeing to a contract for such a long term (10 years) and is looking for a way to cash out quickly, in order to possibly placate their share-holders.

***

I saved the games for last only because I am probably the only person in the world that doesn't have some type of game machine. I haven't seen or played any of the games that have come out.

BST

[Dawg]

I saved the games for last only because I am probably the only person in the world that doesn't have some type of game machine. I haven't seen or played any of the games that have come out.

Neither do I, BST. My son-in-law has an X-Box, though.

I am
Dawg

[Sorrento]

Originally posted by BST
Sorrento,

I actually liked ENT when it first aired and watched nearly the 1st season without interruption. Then, other commitments kept getting in the way and my Wednesday night TV viewing habits basically went out the window. I haven't seen much of the 2nd season although, I would like to go back and see what I've missed.

There is nothing wrong in a person who doesn't have time for TV... I wish I could stop watching it for that matter; it literally kills between 5 to 7 hours each week for me, if not more. At least the few series I have "adopted" are very good: Enterprise, G. Girls, Everwood, Monk, CSI (not Miami of course).

As for the second season, I tell you there is a lot to watch there. There we see Romulans, or don't see them for that matter, for the first time. Also we see the true nature of what Vulcans were 150 years before Kirk and Spock, and also the second of humanity's best friends: Andorians. The series has separated a little bit from the changeling Cabal faction and is exploring other "alternatives to been killed".

To paraphrase what I mentioned earlier, watching a prequel is a bit anti-climactic because you know what will eventually happen in the overall storyline. What I enjoy and what would keep my interest in a prequel is the actual journey in getting to the present day, i.e., ENT eventually getting to the ST:TOS timeframe. In the case of Star Wars, I'll go out on a limb and say that Star Wars III will probably be the highest grossing and, hopefully, best of the 2 trilogies. Its potential is unlimited since it is THE ONE that ties everything together.

This is where we share almost the exact point of view. The only "trick" to capture the audience is the trip between then and here as you said. With Star Wars is very dificult because they have to build new characters, new cultures, new planets in just 2 hours while Enterprise has more time to do so. Worse for Star Wars is that everything they write about is going to disapear probably; Naboo, Jedis, Trade Federation, and others.

Yes, hopefully SW III (hope its name is not as bad as the two before) is going to be a land mark in the saga. My hopes are not that big because G. Lucas has proven not to be that good writer we thought he was in the 1980's... or he was just making a bad story in the first two movies in order to give SW III a lot of attention, which in the end says the same thing.

With Enterprise the third season will have a diferent aproach, so they say at startrek.com. The producers didn't like the 1/3 drop in ratings and they planned a change of a big magnitud; this is what I fear the most, because not only a "big war with an unknown enemy" is already cooking but a bunch of federation marines or soldiers have joined the crew. I don't like wars, I prefer to watch about how to avoid them than how they are fought, and this would probably make the series bad in my opinion, but alas maybe this is what the US audience is looking for... hopefully the change would not stop the good writing so it will remain ok for both.

Regarding Activision's lawsuit against Viacom, their contention that Viacom is not marketing the Star Trek franchise agressively enough is much like the old adage, "beauty is in the eyes of the beholder". The only way, of course, that this lawsuit will be settled will be to determine what specific responsibilities Viacom had with regards to marketing the franchise. Did the contract call for a specific number of new shows and movies over its 10-year life span? Your guess is as good as mine. My gut feeling is that Activision realizes that they made a mistake in agreeing to a contract for such a long term (10 years) and is looking for a way to cash out quickly, in order to possibly placate their share-holders.

Yes, you got it! If I put myself in their shoes (share holders) I would probably dislike the idea of making millions instead of billions (the quantities are variable). They started their 10 year contract with green pastures, but ended up with a dry one. The Video Game market is getting narrow each day, with the release of dozens of games each week... to keep competing is very dificult for anyone, even the giant Activision, so maybe they are willing to step aside from the Star Trek franchise and stay with sports or something; I am sure even the other games they released haven't been that successfull since Return to Castle Wolfenstein.

I saved the games for last only because I am probably the only person in the world that doesn't have some type of game machine. I haven't seen or played any of the games that have come out.

BST

You are not the only one. To be able to run one of these games (Elite Force 2, Medal of Honor, Splinter Cell) you need a very powerful system alright, and today as it was in 1990 to have a PC of such caracteristics is very expensive. You need a good Pentium IV (if its 2.6+ ghz @ 800 mhz is better), a great amount of fast RAM (512+ mb of dual DDR333 at least, DDR400 if its @800 mhz) and a very good video card (from Ti4200 to the sky is the limit). Go cheap like I did and run an AMD instead, but its a handicap eventually.

With that system alone we are talking about $700+ USD, $1000 if you go all the way and get an FX5900 video card (expensive but will keep you safe for a lot more years). And then this is just half the PC, but at least you will experience all the new games in NON stroboscopic action, like with a slower PC. I just fixed a friend's notebook, HP, which can run all those games very decently... but it cost $1,500 usd.

An XBox is an extraordinary machine, my nephew has one and the games run very well in it. Aparently Microsoft DX8.1 runs on the XBox too, so games from both PC and XBox are shared now.

Games don't cost $29.95 as they say in the store, they cost $1,500 + $29.95, or $199.95 + $45.99 in the XBox. What you need is to know somebody with one of these evil machines and go play Elite Force II with him/her... I did that in the past.

Sorrento