Colonial Fleet star system Cyrannus

[Punisher454]

Originally Posted by peter noble

The ep also brings to light another inconsistancy, in the pilot, Adar mentions "As we approach the sevent millenium of time", but the Umbra attack takes place in 7322, which is the eighth millenium!

Adar also said "Years" instead of "Yahrens". oops

[Punisher454]

Sounds very agreeable to me.

[CBSG4ever]

Originally Posted by Taranis

I am bit rusty one some event I am long time away from the show and I am only grabbing snippets when I can and time allows me.

I want expand as much as possible to the BSG universe.

But I feel that some aspect of the novels should be considered canon so long as it does not confident with what is on screen. I agree there.

if we run in to deadlock we can use the voting or poll system to allow the community to decide.

is that agreeable to all.

Agreeable to me as well.

Another informational tidbit to the planet Gemon.
As Cassiopia stated to Starbuck in SoaSW, the Otori Sect do not believe in contact between genders except when sanctified by the Priest during High Worship of the Sunstorm which comes once every seven years.
"Worship of the Sunstorm" might indicate some sort of solar activity that occurs every 7th annual cycle on Gemon.
One could speculate that Gemon has either an elliptical orbit that brings it closer to it's OWN sun or it comes closer to ANOTHER sun every 7th year.
Is this a possible clue to the layout of the planets of the Colonies?
Thoughts?

[gmd3d]

I missed this post ....... I will prep a map in the next day or so ....

good ideas Steve

[Benedict]

Knowing how the Colonies are arranged would help things a bit. In my mind they're ludicrously close to each other.

[Punisher454]

Originally Posted by Benedict

Knowing how the Colonies are arranged would help things a bit. In my mind they're ludicrously close to each other.

Yes they do seem to be quite close, but perhaps thats what makes the system where their ancestors settled special. They had the ability to travel throughout the stars and found this one unique system with 12 habitable planets.
That could also explain why they did not fall to the Cylons sooner. Being close together made them easier to defend.

I'm no scientist but I tend to think the really hard part wouldnt be to find 12 planets in the habitable zone in one system, even a trinary. But the tricky part in a binary or especially a trinary would be for those planets to remain geologically stable enough to build a civilization on. They would possibly be vistied by crazy cycles of frequent quakes, tidal waves, and solar storms.
But the idea of 12 colonies in one trinary system is really fun and interesting.

[Benedict]

Without a doubt it is interesting, them all being close together. Though I imagine 'extra' colonies like you see in Lost Warrior/Long Patrol/Magnificent Warriors lightly scattered beyond the 12. There's a lot to play around with in this universe if you're a writer or say movie maker.

[Punisher454]

I would think that before the war the colonies were exploring the universe and many outposts were springing up as a result. Same thing happened on earth.

In Saga Apollo tells Zack "just wait till the war's officially over, the we can get back to deep space exploration". It would apear to me that during the war the colonies not only stopped exploring, but their sphere of influence steadily shrunk, isolating places like Proteus prison which became too costly/dangerous to reach.
Carilon was known to have an old Tylium mine, but it was not being visited by the colonies (other than an obviously corrupt ring of travelators and renegade skybus operators). I would think that if Carilon were a bit closer, the colonies would have sent more missions to Carilon to assess the status of the tylium mine, rather than just relying on the false reports by Baltars people.
I also think that Arcta (GOIPZ) was probably very far out and Dr. Ravishol was probably originally a Citizen of the Colonies who traveled there to work in complete isolation, like Dr. Moreau, or even Dr.Morpheus (Forbidden Planet). Arcta was probably believed to be much too far away to be bothered.

I also think it may be that the rag tag fleet did not follow a straight course. They were likely zig-zagging all over the place for a while. Which would explain finding Kobol so soon, but other places like Atilla and Crodan much later.

[gmd3d]

I started work on the Star Map and working with the single system idea first I gave placed a sun/star also in the centre to the first idea..

in consideration of this idea I was thinking, if the colonial sun was larger that then Sol or sun. would the habitable zone also be larger.

the map included (I think is westys)
for the moment forget the curves in Red ...

if you place a sun in the centre of the grid the planets orbit around that centre. that would work with dialogue in saga
saying that the Cylons are attacking the inner planets. closer to the sun.

THE Red curve lines could be standard patrol paths by planetary defences ... Battlestars operate out side these paths..

just some thoughts

[gmd3d]

I should have something to show later today

[gmd3d]

here is a basic image of the system .... I added a sun into the centre,.

with the path of the orbits.

some one the worlds seem to share an orbit in this one ..

so where do you think each colony is....

use this and show your ideas here

if you need a paint programs there are a few free ones out there

[peter noble]

For human life to exist, all 12 planets would have to be on, or near the same orbit as we are around the sun, and that's astronomically impossible as far as I know.

[gmd3d]

yes I agree

but some like the single star system idea, so I am submitting it

I think at most 3 planet could possibly be in the habitual zone.

like Venus if closer to Earth and Mars if it was bigger as I understand it

the other would need some form of life support systems.

I will do more no worries ..

but I added the star map so that every one who wants to add ideas can use a paint program (there are free ones on line I will get links if anyone wants them)

it would help the project....

while we have many models available there need more work in that to be done.

so if other could work on this I can later on do the 3d versions.

[Punisher454]

For human life to exist, all 12 planets would have to be on, or near the same orbit as we are around the sun, and that's astronomically impossible as far as I know.

I believe thats correct, so how do we get around that?

Perhaps you could have some large moons orbiting a giant within the zone. Large moons are just planets anyhow, and I dont think anything says the colonies are all proper planets.

I may be wrong but I think planets could have closer orbital paths than our system has. On earth we dont even get noticeable tidal changes from mars or venus, do we? We know from our own solar system you can have a lot of moons around a planet, and if that planet were in a warm enough orbit, then the moons should be also.

[Reaper]

ok, I have a question that may help a bit with this.

in the series did anyone ever actually refer to the colonies as planets?

My idea is we have a bigger star in the system. 2 gas giants in the habital zone. Each orbiting aong the edges of this zone. (with a larger, more powerful sun, this would move the habital zone out further, creating more room)

Around the 2 gas giants you can have 12 planet sized moons. Or even 1 gas giants and a few planets in that habitat ring.

[gmd3d]

food for thought..... use the star maps and post some ideas ....
easier to work out then

[WarMachine]

Remember that the Home System is a multi-stellar group, of at least a trinary. This will greatly increase the depth of the Goldilocks Zone.

However, making them all moons of inner system gas giants is problematic if there are multiple gas giants....Unless, of course, you drop it to a single giant in a stable orbit, and one or two independent planets....

...But then, there is the problem of dialogue in SOASW, specifically Omega: "..Cylons launching against all outer planets..." (emphasis added) -- how to account for that?

I think that three suns, spread relatively far apart, each with its own planetary mini-system, is a better option. Basing this on the Terran system, there would be at least two "normal" planets around two of the stars, leaving room for an inner system gas giant around the third, with a constellation of "terraformable" [sic] moons.....

[gmd3d]

Given that there was never any real confirmation in the series. I like
the multi Star system myself. I working on another one soon with that in mind

there are so many problems with this its a headache


unless it was easier to that instead of
"Cylons launching against all outer planets, in the outer systems".

it would make life easy....

here is a map I found on line somewhere

[peter noble]

Originally Posted by WarMachine

Remember that the Home System is a multi-stellar group, of at least a trinary. This will greatly increase the depth of the Goldilocks Zone.

However, making them all moons of inner system gas giants is problematic if there are multiple gas giants....Unless, of course, you drop it to a single giant in a stable orbit, and one or two independent planets....

...But then, there is the problem of dialogue in SOASW, specifically Omega: "..Cylons launching against all outer planets..." (emphasis added) -- how to account for that?

I think that three suns, spread relatively far apart, each with its own planetary mini-system, is a better option. Basing this on the Terran system, there would be at least two "normal" planets around two of the stars, leaving room for an inner system gas giant around the third, with a constellation of "terraformable" [sic] moons.....

WarMachine could you sketch out your ideas on a piece of paper and scan it?

You're the person who seems to have the know-how to make this work, the rest of us seems to be in the dark,

If we can see a rough visual of how the worlds might exist in the trinary system, it will help the artists with their visualisations.

The suns are probably called Cyrannus Alpha, Beta and Delta, we know Caprica, Virgon and Sagittara orbit together around one of these suns, so that's some sort of starting point.

[WarMachine]

Okay - Never having tried to upload an image before, here's to hoping this works.

PLEASE NOTE: This is a VERY crude sketch of my ideas. Only after finishing it, did I realize that Caprica and Scorpius ended up transposed - apologies. The planet names can be changed around as needed. The stars were not named to save space (I have a rather small screen).

I think this fits the observed show well -- the POV from Caprica, here (in either orbit) is correct for Baltar's scene, and all operational fleet tracks are well within the dialog of the show.


Four points:

1. The orbits of the planets DO NOT intersect with each other! What I cannot show using MSPaint is that the system worlds are on obtuse ecliptic planes -- basically, the worlds around one star orbit at a highly eccentric angle, relative to the other solar groups...think of the gears of a watch, where several gear groups overlap, but never come into contact with each other. If it helps, the suns are not evenly spaced vertically, like apples in a bowl, but are separated by several AU's, from top to bottom.

2. The three suns will all be somewhat dimmer than Sol, again working for Baltar's conversation with the Centurions, but collectively will put out c.5% more radiation. My Paint-fu is not good enough to accurately display distances, but the habitable worlds are all far enough out that they do not get lethal levels of heat.

3. The Asterons were simply scattered. These are generally Ceres-sized moonlets that slowly wander through the system, but pose no danger to the worlds within.

4. This is NOT a complete map! It does not show minor moons, like Luna, nor does it show possible asteroid fields, beyond the wandering Asterons. Also, it does not display either Kuyper Belt or Oort Cloud objects.

[peter noble]

That's brilliant!

How many moons can the colonies have?

And how many jumps is Borallus/Borella?

[gmd3d]

That is brilliant and very helpful.

I will do a 3d MAP of it this week.. if I can I want to finish the colonial Pistol and Carbine if I can ,,, then start on the sets .. floor plans

if you have time to expand or correct they work please do...

there are number of free paint programs out there..
I some time use this one.

https://www.getpaint.net/

or

https://inkscape.org/download/
vector graphics editor

might help

nice work

[WarMachine]

@Taranis: Paint's not the problem - my lack of skill is.

@Peter: Your first question needs to be more specific - are you referring to "moons" as in Luna (no atmosphere)? Based on the Sol system itself...my gosh, 90-100 is not too few -- before you add in asteroids, like Ceres. If you mean something like Titan (that is big enough and dense enough to hold an atmosphere)...One or two per Gas Giant is reasonable, based on what we've seen in our own system.

Your second question is a lot more technical, and relates to how an Alderson Drive works, but I'll summarize it this way.

Borallis is probably a "minor world", in that it likely only has one or two Jump Points leading into the system. Not all stars are going to have Jump Points, meaning that if you want to go to those systems, you'll have to chug along in real space to get there. Wasn't Borallis on the way to Carillon?

Cyrannus System is what would be termed a "nexus" system (as would the Cylon Capitol), because there are so many Jump Points available. Think of an Alderson Point as the Suez or Panama Canals - the more places you can get to by passing through the system, the more traffic will come through. In this model, Cyrannus is more akin to the Straits of Gibraltar or Malacca, each of which sees over a thousand ships a day pass through.

This is also how you can summon reinforcements, and thus win battles...unless you really screw up. *koff*Cimtar*koff*

Two or three Jump Points would be normal for c.85% of systems. Four or Five Jump Points in a system would be unusual. Six or more would be the home of a super-high traffic mega-capitol. (For reference, if the Alderson Drive were what was in use in Star Wars, Coruscant would have 8-10 Jump Points. Minimum.) Gomorray likely has 4 or 5 Alderson Points, also; Cylon probably has the same, but might go as high as six or seven.

Once the RTF gets out past Charted Space, after HoG, they are going to be safe from all but the closest Cylon pursuers, if any are able to actually follow them.....

[peter noble]

WM, I was referring to moons orbiting the 12 colonies like ours.

Also, what are the odds of having three G-type stars so relatively close together?

[gmd3d]

Originally Posted by peter noble

WM, I was referring to moons orbiting the 12 colonies like ours.

Also, what are the odds of having three G-type stars so relatively close together?

good questions ....
regarding the stars what if they are like the Pleiades star cluster
once past of a larger group, the colonial group remained together, I am not good in astronomy but I always likened the
colonial system to this..

In astronomy, the Pleiades, or Seven Sisters (Messier object 45), is an open star cluster containing middle-aged hot B-type stars located in the constellation of Taurus. It is among the nearest star clusters to Earth and is the cluster most obvious to the naked eye in the night sky. Pleiades has several meanings in different cultures and traditions.

The cluster is dominated by hot blue and extremely luminous stars that have formed within the last 100 million years. Dust that forms a faint reflection nebulosity around the brightest stars was thought at first to be left over from the formation of the cluster (hence the alternate name Maia Nebula after the star Maia), but is now known to be an unrelated dust cloud in the interstellar medium that the stars are currently passing through. Astronomers estimate that the cluster will survive for about another 250 million years, after which it will disperse due to gravitational interactions with its galactic neighborhood.

[Benedict]

I'm tentative about asking, but would anyone have a guess as to where Molecay might be in relation to the Colonies? A) I'm trying to figure it out for a story but B) according to sources I read it was the last great effort to stop the Cylons before the Armistice so I assume it's fairly close to the Colonies but reasonably distant.

[gmd3d]

Originally Posted by Benedict

I'm tentative about asking, but would anyone have a guess as to where Molecay might be in relation to the Colonies? A) I'm trying to figure it out for a story but B) according to sources I read it was the last great effort to stop the Cylons before the Armistice so I assume it's fairly close to the Colonies but reasonably distant.

no idea but that is a good question ...

[WarMachine]

Peter -- Rockballs (like our moon) and iceballs (like Saturn's Mimas) should be relatively common. Luna is a bit odd, because it is so large in relation to Earth, but both Jupiter and Saturn are jammed with more than a Baker's Dozen each -- more like two dozen.

For Cyrannus? This is strictly a WAG, but there are probably one or two moons orbiting each of the stand-alone Colonies, and likely 10-15 rock-/iceballs each around the two gas giants.

[WarMachine]

Originally Posted by Benedict

I'm tentative about asking, but would anyone have a guess as to where Molecay might be in relation to the Colonies? A) I'm trying to figure it out for a story but B) according to sources I read it was the last great effort to stop the Cylons before the Armistice so I assume it's fairly close to the Colonies but reasonably distant.

When I wrote "Fields of Iron", I had Molokay at ten Jumps from the Colonies. Since I was using the Alderson Drive, each jump would generally be no more than 30-50 light-years, at the absolute maximum, with the average at somewhere around 25 ly.

[WarMachine]

Peter -- In answer to your second question: Pretty good:

https://csep10.phys.utk.edu/astr162/l.../binaries.html

https://www.atlasoftheuniverse.com/orbits.html

The chances of them having multiple bodies suitable for terraforming (kobolforming?) is completely up in the air, however.....