OT: Questioning Alien Abduction Stories

At the suggestion of Muffit, I'm beginning a top-level thread to discuss the following questions that were spawned from the Taken thread.

This thread is to tackle the following questions (and others similar in nature):

Could not aliens, if they really did abduct us lowly humans, simply plant images in our minds and provide us (and therefore others) false informatoin about the whole abduction process?

Another question:

If aliens are so smart, why do they bother coming to Earth?

And just why are abduction story aliens two-legged, two-eyed, and two-armed anyway?

Just curious to see what people think.

[crash4587]

Can they come and take Moore?

Originally posted by crash4587
Can they come and take Moore?

If they did, then that would answer all my questions on the intelligence of alien species coming to Earth.

[oldwardaggit]

I believe that all the proof you need to know that life is possible on a planet in space, is right here. We exist so others can too but some may think that it's a 1 time fluke. Even though there are more stars in space then grains of sand on our planet. Think of how many grains of sand are at one beach alone and then tell me that it is impossible for life to be out there in some form.

I believe that it is possible for life forms with technology beyond ours to be out there. Right now, there are tribes of people on the earth that live without the knowledge of the civilized world and if the USA or many other countries wanted to use their satellites to zone in and track one of these people so that they know when they are alone. Then capture, drug and put them back without the others knowing, it could be done.

But don't get me wrong. I'm not building a landing pad for aliens or anything. lol

For anyone that believes in this sort of thing or just finds it interesting as I do,
There is a Radio show on the net called Dreamland by Whitley Strieber.
It covers everything from crop circles to UFOs to just about anything that someone may not believe in. There is a new show on every Saturday and from this site, you can listen to the last 4 or so episodes.

http://www.unknowncountry.com/dreamland/

Sometimes it makes me say, what a bunch of nuts but at other times the evidence is pretty convincing.

OWD

[Muffit]

You guys are too funny! Hmm, it's too late right now to think, will post some thoughts tomorrow .

OWD, nice thoughts! I agree, how can anyone go to the Nevada desert and see the trillions of stars with 10 times as many planets around them and not believe there is life out there too? Part of understanding the human condition is realizing how insignificant we are compared to the magnitude of the universe...

[The Blue Mule]

.........and pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space, 'cause there is BuggerAll down here on Earth.



Peace

Rich

[Afan2]

I don't believe in alien abductions.
They may seem possible at first glance, but that doesn't make them true. And the more you try to dig up proof to support it the more it slips through your fingers.
Some people make a lot of money of it selling books, etc., though. Now there's a mystery for you.

[oldwardaggit]

The Blue Mule, Ahhhhh the meaning of life. One of my favorite movies.

owd

[Muffit]

Originally posted by oldwardaggit
The Blue Mule, Ahhhhh the meaning of life. One of my favorite movies.

owd

Me too Blue Mule and OWD! Love to see Python fans!

"Come on, Just one more little thin mint - it's wafffer thin!!!"

[Muffit]

Okay, now my thoughts on this subject.

I think it is possible for multiple conditions to be true. One, it is possible we are being visited and they are intrusively inquisitive. For those of us who wonder how any sentient being could cross the Eden like barriers of space and time, remember only 100 years ago no one thought we would even fly, much less go to the moon. As I mentioned elsewhere, there is a VERY interesting story from South America about many people seeing a very scary looking alien (not a huggable grey), and reported seeing the military chase after it (second evidence) and the animals in the zoo where it passed by all died whithin days of an unknown disease. (third evidence). I think stories of joy rides to Neptune are probably false, but abductions and subsequent scientific experiments sound all too familiar to what we do here, to both animals and humans.

Second, it is possible there are false abductions which are actually a human experiment to see how people react to unfamiliar (even outrageous) circumstances,and to carry out experiments which would otherwise be illegal, but are dismissed as false when reported simply because they are so bizarre, allowing them to get away with it. This second case may well be in addition to actual cases rather than in place of.

Third, is there a cover up? Remembering that Galileo was reclused for the remainder of his life for sporting a new theory on the universe, and forced to rescind his theories, while they were subsequently covered up, is just a hop skip and a jump from our not so distant past. Having done cover ups before makes it seem likely we might be doing it again now. Honestly, I don't know why anyone would want to cover up alien visitation, but hey, it's possible.

I am not sure if abductions are true. Until it happens to me I would never be sure (and even then probably doubtfully). But one thing I am sure of. You can not possibly look up at the night sky in a remote area and see the billions of stars, and still think we alone have the gift of life in all this humongous universe. What a waste it would be if all that mass were cold and lifeless, only there for us to gawk at at night.

Oceans seemed like infinite barriers just a few thousand years ago. Space seems that way now. Only vanity would suggest we are the only intelligent life in this universe, and only naivete would presume only we will figure out how to cross it.

[jewels]

Muffit:
Have you ever read C.S. Lewis' space trilogy?
Perelandra was my favorite, they only went to Venus but the Venus he invented was so imaginative.....wow. 10 years later and I still remember how awestruck I was with his creativity.

I also (even with my earth-centric, Christian belief system) have trouble thinking that all that beautiful creativity was void of other beings who could appreciate it's magnifigance. Doesn't mean I have any clue about aliens visiting or not.

Jewels

[Muffit]

Hi Jewels ,

Yes I have it, in fact I have Chronicles of Narnia too (and my daughter and I love it) - in fact, Narnia is where I get all the beaver jokes.

I did not finish the space trilogy though, it didn't captivate me when I was young the way Narnia did for some reason, but hey I was young. You just gave me a good idea, time for me to go back and finish it!

I too have a Creation-centric view of the universe, but for some reason thoughts of life elsewhere doesn't trouble me. After all, if I saw what a mess Man had made of himself and the world, I'd go back to the drawing board too .

[crash4587]

Ok, the Grey guy's don't want Moore, can they take Me?

[vmnjn]

Alien abductions are entirely possible, since we have no proof life does not exist elsewhere.

The hardest part for me though has always been... Why would they bother?

This world is rapidly being turned into a garbage dump by its "sentient" inhabitants.
The atmosphere is slowly becoming toxic, along with the oceans. The "dominant" lifeform spends most of its short lifespan cheating, hurting, and lying to each other. Why would any "intelligent" species want to visit this dying world and its corrupt species?

Then it occured to me while watching Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom. We are not part of some grand purpose. We are simply being tagged so they can study our migratory patterns and mating habits. Like our "scientists" placing cameras in coyote warrens, they are simply trying to prevent we simple creatures from suffering undo trauma. True they don't try very hard, but we don't really matter that much to them.

Hopefully, we will at least serve as an example to other species of what not to become.

Whew...

[Muffit]

It's sad but what you're saying is pretty much true. Just looking at a satellite photo our impact on nature resembles cancer under a microscope on humans, at least sometimes it seems that way.

I'm still hopeful we will grow out of this, that someday we will treat our environment and others with the courtesy and respect we really ought to have. This world is too precious of a gift to let it slip away...

[ojai22]

I think the Universe is too large and magnificent for life to happen on one planet only. I think it's teeming with life in various forms, with creatures we can't even imagine. Each time we've managed to go a little deeper into the ocean we've found 'fish' that no one had seen before. And that's right here on our own planet. Sometimes we seem like children that have only begun to learn. What's out there I don't know, but I would surely like to find out.

I have read, re-read and loved C.S. Lewis' Trilogy.

[Audona]

If they did exist, I'm sure they have better things to do than repeatedly abduct the same humans, conduct experiments on them, and put these humans back on Earth. What a boring job that would be! LOL!

Hilarious that we are so caught up in the fantasy that any intelligent lifeforms out there would act so callously and cowardly. You'd think that they'd evolved beyond doing "experiments" on humans that involved tortue and breeding!

Alien abductions are just pure earthling fantasies.

[Muffit]

Hi Audona! Welcome to Colonial Fleets!!!

[dvo47p]

The Church threatened to burn him, Muffit
Yeah, The Church used Aristotle’s observations, those damn dark ages set the world behind 500 years.

Originally posted by Muffit
Third, is there a cover up? Remembering that Galileo was a recluse for the remainder of his life for sporting a new theory on the universe, and forced to rescind his theories, while they were subsequently covered up, is just a hop skip and a jump from our not so distant past. Having done cover ups before makes it seem likely we might be doing it again now. Honestly, I don't know why anyone would want to cover up alien visitation, but hey, it's possible.

The Pope's astronomer's knew that the Earth revolved around the Sun, Galileo made the mistake of putting it out without submitting it to the Church, he knew it would be covered up, so he only published a limited number of his observations. Most were burned, but a few remained & got copied

Just so the Catholic Church isn't the only heavy, the Lutheran Church excommunicated Kepler for pretty much the same stuff. Yeah we Lutheran’s didn’t burn our heretics, just cast there immortal souls to burn in hell.

[vmnjn]

Welcome to the forum Audona.

That is the thing I find amusing about most popular "scifi," especially Star Trek. It seems to assume that with our advancing technology our "emotional" maturity will advance also.

While I only have our own species to use as a comparison I feel that this expectation does not hold up to evidence. While our technology has advanced greatly since the year 1000, our racial maturity is still just as non-existent as then. As a whole we still seek ways to degrade others and boast about ourselves. We are still petty, vindictive, and above all else, selfish.

Politically and socially, short term solutions are the only ones that have a chance among our planet's societies. While the citizens that tolerate, endure, or support these societies, by and large, only want the short term fix that helps themselves. We are still very willing to use any excuse to hate or pity others.

While science may show us otherwise, I doubt any Conneticut Broker would accept that someone living off wellfare in a Louisiana trailer has the same needs emotionally, financially, and physically, as him. Him deciding to give up half of everything he has so that the unknown "trailer trash" could be his equal is almost impossible. Even if it did occur willingly, the Broker in Conneticut would still consider himself superior to the Trash in Louisiana.

While legally we have "advanced" the fair and universal application of these laws is mostly non-existent.

If we repeatedly prove our own failure to mature as a species. Then we should not expect more from another species. Sure they may have had a couple more millenia than us to advance their technology. But I doubt it would have affected any change in their racial levels of morality or benevolence.

We, as a society, have even considered other branches of humanity to be less than human. Simply because that branch did not meet our technological level or failed some cultural test. Their "visible" level of sophistication, would make it easier for them to pity, hate, or ignore us. They might not even consider us "really" sentient, because of some cultural test that we fail.

If alien abduction is true, then an "abductee" is little more than a gazelle in the serengeti with a radio tracker stapled to its ear. Recaptured by researchers on a regular basis to measure changes in the gazelle caused by its environment. Yes the researchers may not be intentionally trying to cause the gazelle distress. But the needles, scales, and stapling of a new tracker are very distressing to the gazelle.

It makes me wonder if there are gazelles on the plains who cannot sleep at night, because they fear being taken?

While I am hardly a greenpeacer I feel that it is a good analogy. Especially since I have "eaten" gazelle. A very gamey taste and certainly not a creature that I would EVER consider my equal.

[vmnjn]

Sorry Audona...

Unfortunately was not for welcome, it as for my view on the topic.

[Muffit]

Originally posted by vmnjn
It makes me wonder if there are gazelles on the plains who cannot sleep at night, because they fear being taken?

THAT vmnjn is the best analogy on the subject I think I have ever heard. I had never thought of it that way. We the high and lofty just assume animals do not think. But their species have not survived longer than ours because of being stupid and aloof. I often have believed animals ponder things as we do - your comment brings it home to me.

[dvo47p]

Microbe's on Mars (water maybe under the surface of our 4th planet)

Europa, an ice moon of Jupiter.

A cockroach is advanced life, guys

On that poll "There's no such thing as alien abductions, it's all just one big hoax." Read, this book, "The Demon-Haunted World: Science As a Candle in the Dark" by Carl Sagan

Originally posted by vmnjn
That is the thing I find amusing about most popular "scifi," especially Star Trek. It seems to assume that with our advancing technology our "emotional" maturity will advance also.

An "abductee" is little more than a gazelle in the Serengeti with a radio tracker stapled to its ear. Recaptured by researchers on a regular basis to measure changes in the gazelle caused by its environment. Yes the researchers may not be intentionally trying to cause the gazelle distress. But the needles, scales, and stapling of a new tracker are very distressing to the gazelle.

It makes me wonder if there are gazelles on the plains who cannot sleep at night, because they fear being taken?

That gazelle analogy is great but just one little thing. No way, they cannot reason, we can, that is why 'we' do not eat flipper, on purpose any more, but knock off cows by the million every day, go fiqure.

Asia, look @ the numbers, we will all have Asian blood in 250 years, like there isn't hardly an African American that does not have Caucasian blood, go to Barbados or hey, the Serengeti, what a difference.

Human nature ain't going to change, plus that one world government 'Trek' bullfelgercarb to join the federation is hog wash. Yeah flux capacitors, warp speed or teleportation are not going to change human nature.

How do they pay for all those Starships, just vague Gene Roddenberry utopia stuff, oh did you know that utopia is Greek for 'no place' Plato write about it, as satire. So did Thomas More, the 'Man for all Seasons' headless guy.

[Audona]

Thanks Muffit. I feel right at home already!