16: Take The Celestra

Eric Paddon · December 29th, 2004, 11:18 PM

This thread will be for discussion on changes etc. on adapting episode #16 "Take The Celestra" and conforming the story to a continuous season arc storyline.

luicfer7thfleet · March 13th, 2005, 02:15 PM

the celestra had claws as seen on starbucks scanner was any other ship in fleet ever shown to have weopons

Senmut · June 21st, 2005, 09:46 PM

Claws? Do you mean landing claws, or what? Not sure I understand.

Eric Paddon · September 29th, 2005, 12:14 AM

This is one of those episodes I rate as "eh". Not as bad as the Terra trilogy had been, and a positive step back toward exploring matters inside the Fleet which were never addressed too much. But there's once again some problems in execution that would need to be addressed.

#1-There's no addressing the fallout from the just concluded Terra trilogy and this makes Adama's initial journal entry where he keeps trying to sound the upbeat note sound a bit hollow. There should in fact be a giant letdown setting in because they now know Terra isn't Earth. And what decisions were reached regarding how the Fleet should treat the Terrans and why have they decided to leave them behind? After attempting this big story arc, too many loose ends remained that would have to be either addressed more effectively at the close of the Terra trilogy adaptations, so this can start with a more proper clean slate, but when I get around to finally doing this episode, I intend to make Adama's journal entry more dispassionate and refer to the Terra experience as a disappointment that he still won't let shatter his optimism for eventually finding Earth.

#2-Commander Kronus is not particularly well-written. In fact the whole scene that tries to set himself up as the ultimate regulation disciple doesn't come off well since why would he have any authority to give Tigh any kind of order about where he's supposed to be? Kronus might be a former battlestar commander, but in terms of the Fleet chain of command his past rank should be regarded as ceremonial only, and that Tigh would still be ahead of him in the chain. There should be a better way of establishing him sooner than this way. The ultimate answer is to introduce Kronus in previous episodes in new adaptations and have him be a fully defined character by the time of TTC (and this way you also create the perfect situation of a "recurring" character dying).

#3-The Starbuck-Aurora past relationship is the ultimate "Where did *that* come from?" revelation of a character's past that left me a bit taken aback. In Saga, it's been implied that Starbuck's only going out with Athena, but then we hear about this relationship that was still going on at the time of the Holocaust and Starbuck mentions flying over Aurora's house the night of the attack to confirm she was dead (where did Starbuck find the time for that??) Bringing this relationship required me to go back and make sure the whole relationship is foreshadowed properly through dialogue in Saga (like having Athena mention Aurora in the locker room scene). Like the introduction of Kronus, the Starbuck-Aurora thing, in order for the story of TTC to have credibility must be established sooner in the run.

Senmut · September 29th, 2005, 12:21 AM

Given Starbuck's predelictions regarding women, carrying on with Aurora at the same time as Athena is hardly surprising, or unbelievable. We saw him juggling her and Cassie on the same date! I see it as Athena while aboard ship, Aurora when back in port. As to "finding time" to check out her house, flying a shuttle over Caprica City on the way to pick up refugees before fleeing the Colonies would have given him ample opportunity for that.

Eric Paddon · September 29th, 2005, 12:39 AM

True, but it is a little strange that Starbuck would have just assumed she was in her house and killed and didn't bother to check the computer later where all names are registered, which as Aurora pointed out, he could have done. These just get back to the matter of how TTC is an episode that requires one to go back and carefully replot the actions of characters in episodes all the way back to the beginning if the story is going to work, and TOS can be the kind of tight continuity epic arc it's capable of being.

Pegasus4 · October 17th, 2005, 11:09 PM

Since you established in The Living Legend that Cain despised Kronus (and vice versa), are you going to describe Sheba's thoughts/feelings of being at Kronus' ceremony? Will they meet and she tell him who her father is? We know what Kronus thought of Cain when Cain was at the Academy but what does the former Rycon Commander think of Cain's exploits in the war and as Commander of the Pegasus?

Rycon/Ricon, only Battlestar name I have no idea where it's from.

Eric Paddon · October 18th, 2005, 01:04 AM

Good question, and you bring up an interesting plot point for me to deal with whenever I get around to doing this episode. I certainly would envision cordial words at the very least, and probably after Sheba would walk away, Kronus would make an aside to Adama about, "I hope Commander Cain's daughter is less impulsive than her father ever was," or words to that effect. Thanks for pointing that out!

Pegasus4 · October 19th, 2005, 10:14 PM

I also wonder what Kronus thought of the events of the Living Legend and Cain going after the Cylon Baseships.

WarMachine · October 20th, 2005, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pegasus4

I also wonder what Kronus thought of the events of the Living Legend and Cain going after the Cylon Baseships.

Well, I'll have to rewatch TTC(I'm rewatching the DVD set over the weekend), but from what I recall of Kronus, his likely attitude would have been "Hummph! Typical ill-discipline...He should have tried to return to the Colonies, rather than galivanting around, trying to make a bigger name for himself..." and (privately, to Adama) "...Well, I never said he lacked courage - but then, had he actually taken those tankers, and a few more, we wouldn't have had to try such a risky planet-side raid on a fuel depot, would we?"

Senmut · January 13th, 2006, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pegasus4

I also wonder what Kronus thought of the events of the Living Legend and Cain going after the Cylon Baseships.

I'm sure, since the Fleet survived, that he would find it hard to argue with the results.

October 25th, 2006, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senmut

I'm sure, since the Fleet survived, that he would find it hard to argue with the results.

well given the fact that Kronus was cosidered a war hero in his own right, as the victor of the Battle of Casmoro Acapellico. So I am sure with his apparent ego he would be sure to do some armchair admiraling!

which leads to a sort of off topic question? why was he considered a hero? as i remember he commanded the Fourth Fleet, which was made up of 600 ships including the Battlestar Rycon. At the Battle of Casmoro Acapellico he destroyed 3 Cylon Basestars but at the cost of almost his entire fleet. Now even if Vipers are included in that 600 number you are talking a minimum of 4 Battlestars!! how or why is the better question, is this considered a victory? 4 Battlestars >3 Basestars

Eric Paddon · October 25th, 2006, 03:31 PM

I don't think it was ever specified or suggested that there was more than one battlestar to a "Fleet". For my own purposes I've always thought that two would usually be the most a "Fleet" might carry in normal engagements and that having more than two meant you were joining two Fleet Groups together.

Senmut · February 21st, 2009, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Paddon

I don't think it was ever specified or suggested that there was more than one battlestar to a "Fleet". For my own purposes I've always thought that two would usually be the most a "Fleet" might carry in normal engagements and that having more than two meant you were joining two Fleet Groups together.

Like a modern Carrier Battle Group, you mean? One carrier surounded by various other ships, each with it's own task, plus fighter cover. Sounds sensible.

KageRyu · May 23rd, 2009, 04:49 AM

I was never particularly fond of this episode for so many reasosn. Many of them are vague feelings or impressions that I cannot clearly detail. I always felt that this episode was A) poorly written and executed, and B) lacked the production values of many of the other episodes of BSG. It seemed very low budget to me, to the point where many of the motion-matte sequences were sub-par when compared ot other episode of the series. Every time I see this episode I can't shake the feeling that, by this time in the series, they knew it was a lost cause and had given up. Maybe it is just me...but as I said there is evidence on the screen to me to support this (though vague and hard to explain in detail). Kronus, for example, is a really poor adaptation of Captain Bligh, and this whole episode to me comes off as a very amature retelling of Mutiny on the Bounty. I do see some others with similar concerns in this thread, which reassures me slightly, but I feel this was an episode that perhaps should have been left on the cutting room floor. I feel saving requires completely rewriting it and re-envisioning not only this episode, but significant other details of the series. I can pass off the details of Starbuck's and Aurora's little trist (he never checked because he's a "woman in every port" kinda guy, and frankly she didn't mean that much to him), which seems to be on of the sticking points for others in this thread. I can not accept Kronus' absolute insubordination, not only toward Colonnel Ty, but too Adama. I feel one of them should have had a snappy comeback regarding the whole bit about him once being the commander of a Battlestar, like:
"The Celestra is not a Battlestar." or
"The Galactica is the only Battlestar, and Adama is it's captain."
Just a very dissapointing episode for me.