BSG Mini

I am a fan of BSG, have have been since the 70's. I enjoyed BSG when I was a kid and I enjoyed the reruns on the Scifi channel. When I heard of the mini series in 2002 I was excited. At first I thought that the originals would be back, minus a few because of certian exception (Loren Greene R.I.P). At that time I did not pursue any info on the matter. It was the middle of 2003 when I first heard stories that it was going to be different than the original BSG. I was not dissapointed, I was again excited. For one I think Mr. Hatch and Benedict were too old to reprise the roles starting from the beginning. Now after reading some articles after the fact, I see that some of the originals are disappointed of the direction the mini series has taken because of the fact that they have been trying to revive the original series since it demise after its first and only season. I have this to say. The time of the Family Moral Values that the original portayed is gone. We are living in a world where we need some thing new. Now looking back for new ideas is a good way to go. The darker direction that they went with the new BSG was a good way. Now I know Fans of the old series liked the new mini because I am one of them so there must be more out there. and I am sorry for what i am about to say next but I think it must be said. Because of the new BSG, a revival of the old ways of BSG are now non-negotiable and I know that Mr. Hatch has put alot of his own money into trying to bring back the original concept of BSG but I think that is now not going to happen. It is time for you to move on to other projects and give up the old BGS. Now with the promise of a new series of BSG in the plans. If I have upset anyone I am sorry.

[Sept17th]

Welcome to Fleets, you are entitled to your opinion and I to mine. I’m a fan of TOS and didn’t like the mini-series. So your argument is flawed and (yawn) tired.

While no series based on the mini has yet to be “green lighted”, if it does I hope you enjoy it. While DeSanto still has interest and Larson still holds movie rights I will continue to support a Battlestar project deserving of the name.

“green light” the “give it a chance” of 2004?

[Darth Marley]

There are plenty of us that are fans of both incarnations. Probably more than post to groups like this.

There is also room in the genre for both the RDM series we hope for,and a continuation movie or two.

[Sept17th]

This probably will be the last I say about this for a while. Also of course this is not a scientific study. From people I interact with who are causal fans and don’t do B.Boards the reviews of the mini-series have ranged from “ehh ho-hum” to “totally blows”. These people also seem to think there was too much change for no reason.

[Darth Marley]

Even so,I forgot to say "Welcome to the Fleets!"

Don't be put off by the sheer numbers of detractors of the mini.There are plenty here that liked it,and expect to see more.

[The Rain]

Eskimo, I'm in your camp. The mini was great and a resurrection of the original would be pointless and redundant. Moore done good!
And I don't believe for one minute that the majority of the people who saw it thought it was hum drum or whatever. That's nonsense from disgruntled fan boys. And there are only a few highly vocal ones among the masses.

Originally posted by Sept17th
Welcome to Fleets, you are entitled to your opinion and I to mine. I’m a fan of TOS and didn’t like the mini-series. So your argument is flawed and (yawn) tired.

You are right Sept17th I am entitled to my opinion and non-arguable you are entitled to yours and I am going to disagree with you that my arguement is flawed. Using one of the original series fan sites as a source to back up my agrument, it stated that in the original (and I agree) that after the pilot epi, The fleet finds a planet that has gambling on it and every one settles in like nothing ever happened. Also the Entire fleet assembled for a non-agreesion pack with the Cylons is very unbelievable. And one more case for my ramblings is that after a thousands years of war with the Cylons, everyone looked as if they fighting had just begun or like the fight actually took place in another galaxy or something. I would have to say completely unbelievable. Everyone should have a harden attitude about them. Now as for the mini, It took things in a more believable direction. Not the entire fleet was in one place. The Clyon war lasted not a very long time and plus it had been over for 50 year. Even the way the Cylons attacked seemed a possibly believable way. Now I ask you 17th as to why you stated that my argument is flaw just for my own morbid curiosity. Now dont get me wrong. I am not saying that I hated the origianl series. I loved it but the time of that kind of fantasy is over. I do believe that if the new BSG turns into a a permanent feature, the original will offically die. There cant be room for two in this day and age. It would be like taking Star Trek TOS and the Next Generation (with the attitudes of each) and setting them in the same time period. Or just using one as an example (namely the TOS) in one incarnation makeing Kirk a warmongering psycopath and in the other incarnation have him yelling "Flower Power" it just would not work and I believe the same for both BSG. So in my final thoughts, There are people whi like one and there are people who like the other and there are people like me who like both. The End.

[peter noble]

Eskimo, I think you're wrong about a continuation of TOS, I know I'm not going to convince you but here's why I think you're wrong.

Before the current mini-series, a continuation under the leadership of X-Men producer Tom DeSanto had been greenlighted. It promptly disintergrated after the director left (Bryan Singer no less!) and September 11 happened.

Obviously someone at the time thought a continuation of TOS could work in the noughties.

I also believe from what I've read, that this version would have brought the show into the 21st century while keeping faith with the original, just like they managed to do with X-Men and its respect of the comic book version and its lore.

All the best to you,

Peter

[Westy]

Eskimo....if your argument is the more valid, this means that if SCI FI Channel fails to take this to a series, all they have accomplished is killing BSG. I don't think so. If SCI FI Channel doesn't do a series, why would a more faithful continuation movie be redundant? It wouldn't be...so why should it be redundant if they *do* take the new mini to series? I point to Star Trek as precedent for having a TOS series of movies going on simultaneously at the same time a "reimaged" series was in production. Until the Generations movie came out, there wasn't any cross over between the 2. If Star Trek on the big *and* little screen can work, then why not BSG? I don't see one as mutually exclusive to the other. It's all in the marketing and advertising. One last point....what does it matter to mini fans if a TOS movie becomes a reality? Why bother stirring up this particular pot? To me, this is just another sad example of someone detracting from TOS for no good reason other than stirring things up.

[Jayworld]

Westy, I totally agree with your points.

It seems as if the majority (I didn't say ALL) of the Pro-mini series fans miss the fact that as a continuation, we wanted Dirk as Starbuck and Richard as Apollo, etc., thus reprising their characters, but playing their characters 25 years later; older, seasoned, and that a continuation would be driven more by the younger actors who played the children and generation born in space in the past 25 years.

Most pro-mini series supported think that as continuation supporters, we want Dirk, Richard, Laurette, etc. to reprise their roles and have their characters act today like they did 25 years ago, which is not the case. Therefore, one of the main arguments by Pro-mini series supporters that "the original cast is too old to play their characters" just does not hold water when you realize the intent of TOS fanbase, as well as the Brian Singer/Tom DeSanto production....

To those that support the mini series vision: do your research; read, read, read on this forum, on battlestargalacticaclub forums, on www.battlestargalactica.com, www.battlestarpegasus.com, etc., to find out EXACTLY what we as proponents of a continuation of the original series really support and want. And then, if you still think the mini-series is best, then that certainly is your opinion.

And I don't think those of you that support the mini series will be disappointed, as even if the mini-series to series isn't green lit, you'll probably get your next mini-series that ties everything together in late 2004 or probably 2005. In the mean time, hopefully we supporters of TOS will have our movie in 2005.

Jayworld

[Darth Marley]

Jayworld, I would be totally embarassed if most of my camp proved to be that stupid.
For my part,I have no desire for the original cast. A cameo appearance would be a polite nod to TOS,but I have no desire to see the original cast in these roles.
I bet I would enjoy the DeSanto script brought to film. I don't see it as the Holy Grail though. And some of these concepts have been done in the genre before,not that it is a fatal flaw.
Hopefully a remake series will give more hours than a feature film effort.

[SAR Pilot]

Originally posted by Jayworld

To those that support the mini series vision: do your research; read, read, read on this forum, on battlestargalacticaclub forums, on www.battlestargalactica.com, www.battlestarpegasus.com, etc., to find out EXACTLY what we as proponents of a continuation of the original series really support and want. And then, if you still think the mini-series is best, then that certainly is your opinion.

And I don't think those of you that support the mini series will be disappointed, as even if the mini-series to series isn't green lit, you'll probably get your next mini-series that ties everything together in late 2004 or probably 2005. In the mean time, hopefully we supporters of TOS will have our movie in 2005.

Jayworld

I am a fan of both TOS and the mini, and I must say that while I agree that a great number of mini fans aren't aware of the TOS continuation proponents' desires, I won't say I disagree that I won't be disappointed.
Here's why: in recent years there haven't been any successful space-based sci fi movies at the big screen, and most studios are frankly leaning well away from the genre because there is no monetary incentive for them. Space sci fi is some of the most costly to produce since you must create everything from scratch, including sets, since you can't just run out to your local space battleship and ask to fiim a movie onboard. That being said, in light of the lack of success in recent years, I really fear that a BSG continuation movie on the big screen will not attract a large enough audience to make revenues sufficient to continue the dream of follow-on movies or series. I am afraid that should a big screen BSG fail, all hopes of ANY future BSG projects, including those based upon the mini will be forever dropped as a losing proposition by the studios and we will be back to where we were as a fan-base only a few years ago. Searching our memories for moments past as there will be no future ones, since hope will have been taken away.
I hear other TOS fans talk about the DeSanto project and how it was a go until 9/11, then everything shut down. . . blah, blah, blah. (Please do not mistake what I am about to say for it is not an attack by any means) IT is precisely the environment spawned by 9/11 which makes the mormon-based feel good BSG of old, a show I loved as a kid and still enjoy as an adult, out-dated. Into this darker time stepped the new vision for Galactica, and it was appropriate to it. There are concepts and changes in the re-imaged BSG that I didn't care for, but overall I liked the stronger military feel aboard ship, I liked the more realistic characters (let's face it, look at BSG:TOS OBJECTIVELY and the characters are less human in nature), and I liked the presentation of the Cylon perspective of who they are and why they are back. Does all of this take away from my enjoyment of select episodes of TOS? No. . . I say select because there are just some episodes which are just too campy for my taste! Does it mean I don't want to see a continuation? No! I am afraid of the consequences of a big screen continuation flop, and the loss to us all.

[Dawg]

I was going to ignore this thread.

Really, I was. I don't want to start (or participate in) an argument, and since my opinion of the mini is so diametrically opposed to most of the posters in this particular forum an argument is about all I could hope for.

But there's a point that must be made here, an idea that has obviously (and by some deliberately) overlooked in this discussion.

First, how many of you have seen the Flash presentation of the DeSanto materials available through www.battlestarpegasus.com? The preproduction drawings, story, models, sets, etc? If you haven't, go download it and look at it. Go to www.cylon.org and take a look at the DeSanto pages, too. Truly fascinating material for any fan of BSG.

As you mini fans study those materials, please ponder my question:

Is it so difficult to acknowledge that a "continuation" - a production that kept the BSG universe mostly intact - could have been made in such a way that it not only satisfied TOS fans, but also the more sophisticated expectations of today's viewers?

The opening post in this thread turns a blind eye to any possibility of this; as with many posts by various troublemakers over the past several months, it simply spouts the very tired position that, basically, since it was made in 1978 it has no redeeming qualities and should be scrapped. It makes it sound like those of us who are vocal TOS fans are so stupid that we want a return to '70s hair and disco music. (FYI, that attitude is offensive. Extremely. Just FYI.)

My question is serious, and is not meant to be offensive to anyone; I am really wondering if there is anyone here who really thinks the new BSG couldn't have been done in such a way that it would satisfy all camps.

I am
Dawg

[Darth Marley]

Dawg,
I think I would enjoy such a production.Probably more so if the mini had never been.
Even so,I like the dark overtones of the RDM product,and enough on that is stated elsewhere.
The continuation might be dark enough for me,but the mini makes it dark from the beginning of the story.No Hector/Vector,no Superscouts,etc.
The mini (for me) is Galactica Reborn.

[The Rain]

Originally posted by Dawg
I was going to ignore this thread.

Really, I was. I don't want to start (or participate in) an argument, and since my opinion of the mini is so diametrically opposed to most of the posters in this particular forum an argument is about all I could hope for.

But there's a point that must be made here, an idea that has obviously (and by some deliberately) overlooked in this discussion.

First, how many of you have seen the Flash presentation of the DeSanto materials available through www.battlestarpegasus.com? The preproduction drawings, story, models, sets, etc? If you haven't, go download it and look at it. Go to www.cylon.org and take a look at the DeSanto pages, too. Truly fascinating material for any fan of BSG.

As you mini fans study those materials, please ponder my question:

Is it so difficult to acknowledge that a "continuation" - a production that kept the BSG universe mostly intact - could have been made in such a way that it not only satisfied TOS fans, but also the more sophisticated expectations of today's viewers?

The opening post in this thread turns a blind eye to any possibility of this; as with many posts by various troublemakers over the past several months, it simply spouts the very tired position that, basically, since it was made in 1978 it has no redeeming qualities and should be scrapped. It makes it sound like those of us who are vocal TOS fans are so stupid that we want a return to '70s hair and disco music. (FYI, that attitude is offensive. Extremely. Just FYI.)

My question is serious, and is not meant to be offensive to anyone; I am really wondering if there is anyone here who really thinks the new BSG couldn't have been done in such a way that it would satisfy all camps.

I am
Dawg

I saw the flash presentation. Very interesting. I saw the plot summary too and to be honest, I didn't care for it. Boxey as commander made absolutely zero sense to me.
No, I don't think that project would have been better. The mini was perfect. Well written, well acted, wel directed and well produced.
To make a continuation story is, to me, silly.

I agree with many of the points on this thread by both sides. I liked the mini, I liked TOS, and I would have liked a continuation. I think however that from a financial point Battlestar Galactica is at a crossroads.

If Moore's Battlestar becomes a series it will spell the end of any continuation effort no matter what we want to think. No one is going to finance something that appears to COMPETE with a successful Battlestar on SCIFI or where ever it appears. If Moore's version goes to series and fails people outside the world of Galacticon and colonial fleets will think Battlestar Galactica failed. We will not see funding for anymore projects. If SCIFI fails to greenlight a series or another mini the purist will treat the mini just like we all do BSG80. We will pretend it never happened. From a financial standpoint the mini appears to be a success. Someone will see this and at some point in the next few years make another Battlestar Galactica. Whether it is a continuation of the original, a continuation of the Moore version, or a Battlestar Pegasus type story who knows. It will all depend on who pays and who writes the script.

What am I trying to say? If you want a continuation you need to hope that SCIFI does not greenlight a series. If SCIFI does greenlight a series no matter what side you're on you better hope for it to be a success because it will be the only shot at new Galactica we are going to get.

Since the mini is based on an old movie maybe a new series would return to the themes of TOS. No matter what you think of the mini I would give a new series a chance. Moore is already talking about remaking "Living Legend".

Personally I thing Battlestar Galactica lives or dies in 2004-2005.

We are on the same path as Star Trek. Success breeds opportunity but failure ends the franchise. No one is going to blame the script writers when they cancel Star Trek. I already heard Patrick Stewart says something to the effect that "Star Trek may have runs it's course." I just hope the Battlestar community is at the same point Star Trek was at the start of TNG not where Star Trek is today.

[i]

Is it so difficult to acknowledge that a "continuation" - a production that kept the BSG universe mostly intact - could have been made in such a way that it not only satisfied TOS fans, but also the more sophisticated expectations of today's viewers?

The opening post in this thread turns a blind eye to any possibility of this; as with many posts by various troublemakers over the past several months, it simply spouts the very tired position that, basically, since it was made in 1978 it has no redeeming qualities and should be scrapped. It makes it sound like those of us who are vocal TOS fans are so stupid that we want a return to '70s hair and disco music. (FYI, that attitude is offensive. Extremely. Just FYI.)

My question is serious, and is not meant to be offensive to anyone; I am really wondering if there is anyone here who really thinks the new BSG couldn't have been done in such a way that it would satisfy all camps.

[/B]

[Hito]

Originally posted by peter noble

I also believe from what I've read, that this version would have brought the show into the 21st century while keeping faith with the original, just like they managed to do with X-Men and its respect of the comic book version and its lore.

It is interesting you say that becasue the equivalent of TOS BSG fandom or "pureists" in X-Men fandom thought both movies were garbage.

And even tho you might say well they didnt change the sex of anyone or it stayed thematicaly true to the source material.
What was changed was as imoirtant to them as what was changed from TOS to the mini was to TOS fans.

Originally posted by Eskimo

This is a responce that I tried to post ealier with a quote from THE DAWG so I have to retype.


To Westy, Jayworld, Dawg:

I think you all are missing the point of my original post which started this all. SO I am going to guide you to the thoughts of my reasoning.

First of all, I am a fan of TOS. I would have enjoyed a return of the so as it was in the 70's. I would have watched and hopefully enjoyed the show if it was done right. A return of Mr. Hatch, Benedict, and those who chose to return to reprise their roles. But I really do not think that is going to happen.

Second. For those of you who think the TOS and the mini can co-exsist, SORRY! Not gunna do it. It wouldn't be prudent at this juncture. It can not happen. Let me put it in simpler terms. Two shows about the same thing using the same basic story line and same charaters but different people playing it is just not feisable and not possible . Now you can't have one on TV and the other on the big screen and make it work. If you can find anything in history where this was successful with proof, I will recant my arguement and concead defeat. But i do not think you can. The point I used in an ealier post where I compared Star Trek: TOS and the Next Gneration was a bad one and not understood anyways. Lets try it again then. We will use the TOS of Star Trek. Now imagine all the original charaters of Star Trek. i.e Kirk, Spock, Bones, Scotty, and so forth, all played by the original actors. Now imagine all the same character but played by the actors form the next gen cast, i.e Stewert, Frakes, Spiner, and so forth. The plots are basically the same but there are differences as compared to BSG: TOS and the new mini. Both running at the same time. Do you really think this would work? I really don't think so.

Third. If it wasn't for the mini, it might have been possible for the original to make a come back but after the green lighting of TOS movie and then the backing out of the director, I do not think there is room as of now for a come back of that paticular incarnation of the show now. The problem now is that the mini in now either the life or death of BSG. If it fails most of the fan base that was created by the mini would go away and that would effect the money makers that make the movies. Unless there was a massive campaign for monies by the fans of the original series with donations in the millions (say areound 20 - 40 million) there will not be a return of the original show. But if I am wrong and there is a rturn and survival of this return I will be the first to eat my hat and rejoin the fans with a total devotion of the show. but until then it will have to remain in my past with my childhood.

Now I know there will be people that still disagree with me and that is OK. You are entitled to your opinioins and I do welcome them . Until the next post I bid yor farewell.


We all die sooner or later, it all depend on how many laser blast it take to kill you.

I understand alot of your points Eskimo, but it's not unheard of to have two incarnations of a show going at the same time. Trek did it, and even though TNG was a continuation, I would think that a well done TOS movie would attract a large portion of the fanbase of the mini.

There's also the marketing aspect, which goes largely ignored. Again, if you take a look at Trek, the reason Paramount keeps on churning out one series after the other, even though raitings are nothing like they used to be, is because there's millions of licensing dollars to be made by keeping the Trek brand in people's minds. Two version of BSG means twice the money from DVD's, action figures, model sets, ect...

It's been 25 years, and admittedly the window is starting to close on if it will be feasible to have the remaining members of the original cast reprise their roles in other than a supporting character fashion. Dirk and Richard look great, though, and I really hope there's movement on the movie soon.

[BST]

Eskimo,

There must be a better way for you to state this than the following:

Unless there was a massive campaign for monies by the fans of the original series with donations in the millions (say areound 20 - 40 million) there will not be a return of the original show.

What you said with the above quote can be interpreted as being condescending. This sub-forum is an area for folks to have fun talking about the mini-series, not bashing TOS or its fans.

Thanks in advance,

BST

Originally posted by Dawg


My question is serious, and is not meant to be offensive to anyone; I am really wondering if there is anyone here who really thinks the new BSG couldn't have been done in such a way that it would satisfy all camps.

There's a little rule in the world - You can please some people some of the time, but you can't please all the people all the time. If you try, you wind up not pleasing anyone.

Me... I loved TOS. I love the mini. They are two different entities. Did they have to be that way? Probably not, but because I love the new characters and situations, I can't wish that they weren't created. They intrigue me. That's why I'm here.

So arguing about could haves, should haves, might've beens and such - well, I just don't see a point. I'll just enjoy what's there, and hope that we get more from whatever direction it comes. Good stories are too rare to eliminate just because it isn't exactly what you asked for.

-Crys-

[Dawg]

If it's OK, I'd like to respond directly to what Eskimo said.

Eskimo, given the conversations that have occurred over the past year, your reasoning is not unfamiliar to any of us. We have had this conversation on many occassions, and occasionally with people who really don't care about BSG but who just get off on causing fights and arguments. I think you are genuine in your stand, however; otherwise, I'd probably just ignore you.

Instead, Uncle Dawg is going to give you an education.

(That was a joke, BTW.)

Originally posted by Eskimo
[B]This is a responce that I tried to post ealier with a quote from THE DAWG so I have to retype.


To Westy, Jayworld, Dawg:

I think you all are missing the point of my original post which started this all. SO I am going to guide you to the thoughts of my reasoning.

First of all, I am a fan of TOS. I would have enjoyed a return of the so as it was in the 70's. I would have watched and hopefully enjoyed the show if it was done right. A return of Mr. Hatch, Benedict, and those who chose to return to reprise their roles. But I really do not think that is going to happen.

Second. For those of you who think the TOS and the mini can co-exsist, SORRY! Not gunna do it. It wouldn't be prudent at this juncture. It can not happen. Let me put it in simpler terms. Two shows about the same thing using the same basic story line and same charaters but different people playing it is just not feisable and not possible . Now you can't have one on TV and the other on the big screen and make it work. If you can find anything in history where this was successful with proof, I will recant my arguement and concead defeat. But i do not think you can.

We agree here. I don't think the mini and TOS can co-exist, either, but many do think so. However:

Originally posted by Eskimo
The point I used in an ealier post where I compared Star Trek: TOS and the Next Gneration was a bad one and not understood anyways. Lets try it again then. We will use the TOS of Star Trek. Now imagine all the original charaters of Star Trek. i.e Kirk, Spock, Bones, Scotty, and so forth, all played by the original actors. Now imagine all the same character but played by the actors form the next gen cast, i.e Stewert, Frakes, Spiner, and so forth. The plots are basically the same but there are differences as compared to BSG: TOS and the new mini. Both running at the same time. Do you really think this would work? I really don't think so.

Here's where we part company. I find your argument (or at least your example) very much flawed (I thought so with your initial post, too). In general, in fact, I find comparing BSG to Star Trek to be comparing apples to oranges, unless you are discussing the differences in how the two franchises have been handled the last 25 years.

Here is the crux of it: Paramount supported ST, Universal didn't support BSG. When ST was revived, in the films, it was a continuation of the original series, each actor playing the roles they played in the late '60s. The universe was the same, the relationships were the same - in short, it was the same Star Trek, updated to conform with the more sophisticated audience.

Then, because the movies were so popular, came TNG. A continuation set 80 years after Kirk's Enterprise. None of the original characters, but the same universe. Recognizable. Familiar. You don't see Patrick Stewart as Kirk, or Jonathan Frakes as Spock. New characters, new ship, even, but the same, recognizable universe. (This is where your Star Trek analogy breaks down.)

Compare that with what we got as a "revival" of BSG. No comparison, is there? It's not the same universe, not the same characters, not the same relationships. Oh, the presentation was "updated", darker, more brooding, but nothing of the original is recognizable in the new. (Don't get me started on what was carried over - superficialities only, IMO.)

Originally posted by Eskimo
Third. If it wasn't for the mini, it might have been possible for the original to make a come back but after the green lighting of TOS movie and then the backing out of the director, I do not think there is room as of now for a come back of that paticular incarnation of the show now. The problem now is that the mini in now either the life or death of BSG. If it fails most of the fan base that was created by the mini would go away and that would effect the money makers that make the movies. Unless there was a massive campaign for monies by the fans of the original series with donations in the millions (say areound 20 - 40 million) there will not be a return of the original show. But if I am wrong and there is a rturn and survival of this return I will be the first to eat my hat and rejoin the fans with a total devotion of the show. but until then it will have to remain in my past with my childhood.

Keep in mind that if it wasn't for the fans of the original, who have kept BSG alive for the past 25 years, there would be no mini. That's why the mini is viewed by so many as an insult, a slap in the face.

However, you do point out where the danger is, as I see it. If a series based on the mini is produced and runs for more than a few episodes, there is a very real danger that what you propose here will come to pass: we will not see a revival of (what I see as) the real BSG. If this happens, any feature film will be of the Moore BSG universe, not the universe of the original.

Forgive me if I feel that this would be a crime.

I feel that the TOS universe still has so much potential, potential that was wasted with the mini. To my mind it would be far better, now, that it join G80 in limbo. Then we can (with luck) get a DeSanto-produced movie that would appeal to the same audience that enjoyed the mini - you, Rain, Hito, everyone - and appeal to the hard-core fans of TOS, like me.

Crys, when you say they are two different entities, you're right. That's part of the whole problem, IMO. People are now associating "Battlestar Galactica" with the mini, not TOS, and that confuses the issue. In fact, if the mini had been called anything but BSG, this debate would not be happening at all.

Anyway, Eskimo, I hope I have helped clarify matters, and hope you understand and can appreciate my position.

Thanks for listening.

I am
Dawg

[BST]

Dawg,

Very good words. But... (you knew it was coming)...please take care with the reference "real BSG".

For folks that watched and enjoyed the mini and want more (no pun intended), it is as real to them as TOS is to us.


BST

[amberstar]

I have to agree with Dawg on this one...

I feel that the TOS universe still has so much potential, potential that was wasted with the mini. To my mind it would be far better, now, that it join G80 in limbo. Then we can (with luck) get a DeSanto-produced movie that would appeal to the same audience that enjoyed the mini - you, Rain, Hito, everyone - and appeal to the hard-core fans of TOS, like me.

There are thoes who enjoyed the mini, but remember there are still thoes who are devoted to TOS and may even be some that like them both.
I feel that there is still enough interest in a continuation to make it successful! Come on 25 years later we still want to see what happened to the show that was only on for a season. In 25 years I wonder if we will still remember the new mini and be talking about it then.
We all should just agree to dis agree about our different opinions. neither side is going to change each others minds.
Sorry BST I couldn't help myself. I was going to ignore this thread but I just had to add my opinion.
Amber

[Westy]

I guess alot of these theories depend on what SciFi ends up doing. 2 Possibilites..they make a series/more mini movies, or they abandon the mini (and it's new found fan base).

If they abandon the series, a continuation is probably more likely than if not. But even if they don't abandon it, since the mini is on the small screen and any continuation movie would be on the big screen, it would be alot easier to market and advertise the fact that this is a continuation and *not* a movie for the SciFi mini. Eskimo, I don't follow your reasoning. It sounds good on the surface, but dig a little deeper and I just don't accept the reasoning you gave. Small screen BSG in one universe doesn't preclude a big screen BSG in the original universe.

I hope both get made personally. You can't have enough BSG of any kind...unless it's G1980 that is....which is the heap we'll toss the mini on if SciFi doesn't follow up on what they rekindled.

Originally posted by BST
Dawg,

For folks that watched and enjoyed the mini and want more (no pun intended), it is as real to them as TOS is to us.


BST

Amen, and thanks BST - you said it all right there.

-Crys-

Originally posted by Dawg





Here's where we part company. I find your argument (or at least your example) very much flawed (I thought so with your initial post, too). In general, in fact, I find comparing BSG to Star Trek to be comparing apples to oranges, unless you are discussing the differences in how the two franchises have been handled the last 25 years.

Here is the crux of it: Paramount supported ST, Universal didn't support BSG. When ST was revived, in the films, it was a continuation of the original series, each actor playing the roles they played in the late '60s. The universe was the same, the relationships were the same - in short, it was the same Star Trek, updated to conform with the more sophisticated audience.

Then, because the movies were so popular, came TNG. A continuation set 80 years after Kirk's Enterprise. None of the original characters, but the same universe. Recognizable. Familiar. You don't see Patrick Stewart as Kirk, or Jonathan Frakes as Spock. New characters, new ship, even, but the same, recognizable universe. (This is where your Star Trek analogy breaks down.)

Compare that with what we got as a "revival" of BSG. No comparison, is there? It's not the same universe, not the same characters, not the same relationships. Oh, the presentation was "updated", darker, more brooding, but nothing of the original is recognizable in the new. (Don't get me started on what was carried over - superficialities only, IMO.)

Responding you Dawg and all the others:


Fisrt off to those of you who think I am bashing and stirring up trouble with TOS fans I am not bashing any one. I agree with them that TOS could have made a come back if not for the mini. I would have been happy with a come back of the original cast in a story line. I wonder if most of you remember a made for TV movie fro BSG where the Galatica made it to earth which in a small sence would have ended the original story line. But there were possiblities to continue the show after that point.

Now to Dawg. I am not comparing the franchises of BSG and ST. I was using ST as a base for my point and I am srroy to say that I think that you are still missing the point. I was not reffering to a continuation of St but as the two shows running at the same time in the same time period as the same charaters. Shartner, Stewert as Kirk, Nemoy, Spiner as Spock, Kelly, Macfaden as Bones, I am sorry but I can not place Frakes as a character so use you imagination. Also the same basic story line with again minor difference to seperate the two show to make them look different. Like they did with the mini compared to the TOS of BSG. Now these two incarnations of Star Trek TOS (in the same time line and time period) could not have co-exsisted because for one, it would have confused the hell out of the fans.

So to hopfuly get my point across I finish my debate here and move on with my life and make my wife happy because she think me doing these posting is a wate of my time. But I enjoy a good debate when it come to some thing I like. Happy trails




And the answer is.............................................42

[Dawg]

OK, Eskimo, I understand - you were doing a "what if". "What if" ST:TOS were alive and well in the movies at the same time a remade series appeared on TV, with the same characters but different actors.

I agree - it would be too confusing and nobody would like it.

But that's not what happened to Star Trek - but that's exactly what they tried to do with the mini. Unfortunately, rather than remake BSG, they remade a WWII movie called "In Harm's Way", with a few influences from other movies like Abyss, from Space: Above and Beyond, and several others, together with a liberal () dash of left-wing politics. Then they used a few visual and verbal clues that came from BSG:TOS to give a link they hoped people like me would catch and so watch.

Talk about compounding the confusion!

(BTW, this is not meant as a slam, or as bait, for those of you who like the mini, this is simply my own, personal, opinion.)

I'm not going to suggest the mini was bad science fiction; I didn't watch enough of it to be in any position to judge. But I see a very real danger that the mini - if continued via series or follow-up miniseries - will eliminate the possibility of a movie done in the TOS universe; a universe I see nothing of in the mini. I see the TOS universe as being far richer, far more complex, far more interesting than the universe I see in the mini. But we are in agreement, Eskimo: it would be too confusing to have both universes portrayed with the same label at the same time.

I know most of you will disagree with my views of this; that's fine, I realize that, in all things, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and I would not deny you your own opinions. I also appreciate being able to express my opinions here.

Thanks for the opportunity!

I am
Dawg

[SAR Pilot]

Originally posted by Dawg

I see the TOS universe as being far richer, far more complex, far more interesting than the universe I see in the mini. But we are in agreement, Eskimo: it would be too confusing to have both universes portrayed with the same label at the same time.

Dawg,

Like you I am not trying to pick, or continue, any fights with TOS or Mini fans. I am one of the few, apparently, who can look upon each as a separate and distinct entity that unfortunately shared a common name, but is a good in its own rights.
In my opinion, I would say it is unfair to compare the richness and complexity of the universes unless you were comparing the BSG: TOS pilot movie to the BSG: RDM movie, and excluding the rest of the TOS series. I say that only because the mini has not been presented the opportunity to develop the plot-line, its characters, etc across the same span of time.
Now I know the counter will be that the RDM should have drawn upon the whole series for its storyline, but as so many have pointed out from both sides of the issue, they are separate entities sharing a common theme.
Time will tell if what you said proves true, but I say we wait to see what Sci Fi does with it before we pass judgement.

I still hold my reservations and fears about a continuation attempt concurrent with the BSG:RDM universe, thinking that they cannot co-exist simultaneously, though I too would like to see a continuation of the original (just not DeSanto's vision. . . sorry). I would contend that rather than a continuation, perhaps a separate story about the Pegasus would perform much better and not be so confusing for new and old fans of BSG.