HAVEN'T BEEN HERE IN A WHILE?
Please check your email address and make sure it is up-to-date.
If you are on this list, you need to update. OR if you know someone on this list, please contact them and have them update.
THE LIST
Upon updating, please contact an Admin so we can remove you from the list.
Thanks.
The Last Battlestar......Galactica!For discussions about the ORIGINAL series What Dreams May Come!
Yes two Galacticas can exist side by side. No I am not starting a repeat tread of one we already have pertaining to our tos and Moore's shlock. I remember the fleets of old when the biggest argument was over Larson's Galactica or Hatch's Galactica. Many of the arguments we heated but that was a good thing because I conside both to be Batlestar Galactica not this crap that we were made to swallow because sci fi decided to do an end run around Glen and bring good old Ronnie on board. Remember my "it's so easy" thread where I stated that if Glen had participated 100% and this had been a true remake then the continuation would have been a snap? Fleets should be brought back to that greatness where all of the fans were on one page (OS nothing else matters), it was an easy read. Supporting Moore's show will not help our efforts in the long term. Supporting C.F.F and buying as much tos merchandise as possible sends a message, "We are here waiting patiently for our heros to return in all of their glory to the big screen making those stars who have passed proud to have ever worn the Colonial Uniform, Lloyd Bridges, Lorne Greene, John Colicos( Baltar started out on the right path as a cadet), and Jonathan Harris( the voice of that lovable IL Series Cylon named Lucifer who is more human than that rip off Number 6 will ever be).
I remember the fleets of old when the biggest argument was over Larson's Galactica or Hatch's Galactica.
Forgive my ignorance, as I was not a member then, but were there arguments against Richard's efforts ?
This is not something that I would have thought would have happened, and cannot understand since so much work was put into The Second Coming, how fans cannot accept it as the best thing to happen to this fanbase since 1978 ?
Forgive my ignorance, as I was not a member then, but were there arguments against Richard's efforts ?
This is not something that I would have thought would have happened, and cannot understand since so much work was put into The Second Coming, how fans cannot accept it as the best thing to happen to this fanbase since 1978 ?
Forgive my ignorance....
Ernie90125
Ernie -
Not so much arguements against Richard's version, but no matter which version - DeSanto, Hatch or Larson, people managed to find some part of the storyline that didn't make them happy. Richard's was considered "too Apollo centric" and DeSanto's version had "not enough of Apollo" in it - go figure! "You can't please them all" dontcha know...
No matter who remakes BSG, LIS or any other show with a strong following, there will always be some that don't like some part of it. Even though the LOTR films were a big financial success, there were some that weren't 100 percent happy with it. Even though I never read the books (register shock/horror here), I heard that Peter Jackson stayed really close to the source material. There are always some people just cannot be appeased and will find some fault with something. It's just in their intrinsic nature - I tend to look for the parts that I do like and mentally toss out the parts that don't
I don't deny them the right to critique it, but in the end, it never changes things.
My own objections to Richard's efforts had nothing to do with the trailer (which I have never seen) and everything to do with my negative reaction to his novels, or rather the novels that bear his name. The profound disregard the novels show for what actually happened in the series with no pretense made of watching for continuity (which is always expected in a Star Trek novel or Star Wars novel) turned me off to them completely and things have only gotten worse ever since. That was why for me and some other people I know we weren't comfortable with the idea of Richard setting the tone for any revival story.
Actually while we are on the topic, please may I ask something I did not understand about the trailer ?
There was this big 'Go to Get Starbuck' theme towards the end. I didn't understand this...
What prompted the sudden urge to rescue Starbuck ?
Why couldn't they have done this during peacetime ?
Where did they think he would be ? Surely not still on that desert planet ?
That lost me....
Ernie90125
The Book:
At the beginning of Armageddon , Starbuck is lost on a routine patrol. Since there are Cylon raiders in the area it is presumed that he is dead. Not so. Apollo senses that he is alive and sets out to rescue him alone. he succeeds.
Second Coming:
Baltar: When I last saw Starbuck he ws alive.
We can only presume that Starbuck was captured by the Cylons after being marooned on the planet Starbuck, "The Return of Starbuck." Hatch borrowed very little from the galactica 1980 Starbuck story since there is no Dr Zee in the fleet.
DeSanto version:
Starbuck managed to escape the Cylons. Apollo is still missing in action. He was never confirmed killed in the Galactica 1980 novel, "Galactica Discovers Earth". The Fleet wants to settle down on a nearby planet over the objections of Adama( Sir Ian McKellen). The Cylons have their own agenda, make the colonials submit through placing a chip in their head. DeSanto's version was not a rip off of best of Star Trek: the next generation's, "the Best of Both Worlds" since this very idea was proposed for a season 2 story, "The Return of the Pegasus." See follow up post below.
The episode begins with a sudden and enormous Cylon attack on the fleet. Starbuck, Apollo, and Sheba respond to the Red Alert, but Starbuck doesn’t want Sheba to go–so much, I guess, for the new importance of the women in the cast. They launch, and in the ensuing dogfight against horrific odds Sheba is killed. Just as all seems lost, the surviving vipers are succoured by a new group of vipers, which can only be from the Pegasus. They joyfully lead the Pegasus back to the fleet, only to learn that the Galactica has been badly hit and Athena terribly wounded.
Apollo of course sinks into guilt over the death of Sheba and the wounding of Athena, while Adama returns to his pilot episode mode of deciding to lay down command, this time handing it over to Commander Cain after Apollo turns down the job.
Apollo finds something different about Cain, something undefinable. But he is quickly distracted by Cain’s executive officer. No, not Colonel Tolen, who has joined many other characters in BG Limbo, but the beautiful Renata, whose manner is “warm, almost subservient.” OK, those of you who are or have been in the military, ever met a “warm, almost subservient” exec? I didn’t think so…. “Apollo begins to feel that his one mission in life is to shield her and protect her from any possible harm.” Starbuck is also interested, and a rivalry, “sometimes heated, but more often playful” breaks out between them over her favors, and Apollo accuses his friend of being a “poor sport when he begins to find more and more fault with Cain and his ship.” Trying to get to the bottom of things Starbuck wanders off into the bowels of the Pegasus and discovers, much to his surprise, that the crew of the Pegasus are steadily being replaced, as Cain already has been, with a fleet of androids. As Starbuck rushes back to warn Apollo, Apollo is busily blabbing Starbuck’s suspicions to Renata. Renata, of course, is part of the problem: half human, half Cylon, as she admits to Apollo, smugly informing him that she and Cain will now destroy the entire fleet (with a “laser” perhaps).
Again, we have to pause and wonder about the authenticity of this document at this point, given what we know about Ron Moore’s script which features human-appearing Cylons. However, it must be remembered there were also human-appearing Cylons in Galactica 1980.
Renata attempts to garrote Apollo; a fight ensues in which he manages to get the upper hand. Starbuck shows up and suggests that they toss her out the airlock, which seems the correct response, but Apollo hesitates and our heroes find themselves in a fight with several of the android crewman who have come to Renata’s aid. The boys manage to fight their way to the landing bay, steal a couple of vipers, and hie it back to the Galactica to prepare the ship for a showdown with the Pegasus “led by the subverted intelligence cells of the legendary Commander Cain.”
We can only presume that Starbuck was captured by the Cylons after being marooned on the planet Starbuck, "The Return of Starbuck." Hatch borrowed very little from the galactica 1980 Starbuck story since there is no Dr Zee if the fleet.
Aha, Yes I remember this piece of dialog now. However, if Starbuck is in the middle of the Cylon Empire, then how does Apollo propose with just a squadron of Vipers (bad needed at the fleet) to get him back ? Knock on their door and ask ?
This of course should not been seen as knocking the writing of the trailer, as we cannot know enough of the storyline from a few minutes to pass judgement...
"The Fleet wants to settle down on a nearby planet over the objections of Adama( Sir Ian McKellen)."
That's just your own idea of casting, or was DeSanto really thinking of recasting the part of Adama for some cameo scene at the beginning of his story?
The episode begins with a sudden and enormous Cylon attack on the fleet. Starbuck, Apollo, and Sheba respond to the Red Alert, but Starbuck doesn’t want Sheba to go–so much, I guess, for the new importance of the women in the cast. They launch, and in the ensuing dogfight against horrific odds Sheba is killed. Just as all seems lost, the surviving vipers are succoured by a new group of vipers, which can only be from the Pegasus. They joyfully lead the Pegasus back to the fleet, only to learn that the Galactica has been badly hit and Athena terribly wounded.
Apollo of course sinks into guilt over the death of Sheba and the wounding of Athena, while Adama returns to his pilot episode mode of deciding to lay down command, this time handing it over to Commander Cain after Apollo turns down the job.
Apollo finds something different about Cain, something undefinable. But he is quickly distracted by Cain’s executive officer. No, not Colonel Tolen, who has joined many other characters in BG Limbo, but the beautiful Renata, whose manner is “warm, almost subservient.” OK, those of you who are or have been in the military, ever met a “warm, almost subservient” exec? I didn’t think so…. “Apollo begins to feel that his one mission in life is to shield her and protect her from any possible harm.” Starbuck is also interested, and a rivalry, “sometimes heated, but more often playful” breaks out between them over her favors, and Apollo accuses his friend of being a “poor sport when he begins to find more and more fault with Cain and his ship.” Trying to get to the bottom of things Starbuck wanders off into the bowels of the Pegasus and discovers, much to his surprise, that the crew of the Pegasus are steadily being replaced, as Cain already has been, with a fleet of androids. As Starbuck rushes back to warn Apollo, Apollo is busily blabbing Starbuck’s suspicions to Renata. Renata, of course, is part of the problem: half human, half Cylon, as she admits to Apollo, smugly informing him that she and Cain will now destroy the entire fleet (with a “laser” perhaps).
Again, we have to pause and wonder about the authenticity of this document at this point, given what we know about Ron Moore’s script which features human-appearing Cylons. However, it must be remembered there were also human-appearing Cylons in Galactica 1980.
Renata attempts to garrote Apollo; a fight ensues in which he manages to get the upper hand. Starbuck shows up and suggests that they toss her out the airlock, which seems the correct response, but Apollo hesitates and our heroes find themselves in a fight with several of the android crewman who have come to Renata’s aid. The boys manage to fight their way to the landing bay, steal a couple of vipers, and hie it back to the Galactica to prepare the ship for a showdown with the Pegasus “led by the subverted intelligence cells of the legendary Commander Cain.”
Kingfish: season 2 isn't canon because it was only a proposed outline from the producers to the network. And Hatch didn't know it existed when he wrote the trailer or the books so he has completely different circumstances happen.
__________________
"We feel free when we escape – even if it be but from the frying pan to the fire." Mozzie on White Collar
"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one." Malcolm Reynolds [/color]
"We don't dictate to countries, we liberate countries." Mitt Romney [/color]
"The Fleet wants to settle down on a nearby planet over the objections of Adama( Sir Ian McKellen)."
That's just your own idea of casting, or was DeSanto really thinking of recasting the part of Adama for some cameo scene at the beginning of his story?
What DeSanto presented at Galacticon was that Adama had died and Boxey commanded the Galactica.
There were other versions of the script. Ian McKellan comes from some of Scooter's sources, if I recall.
__________________
"We feel free when we escape – even if it be but from the frying pan to the fire." Mozzie on White Collar
"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one." Malcolm Reynolds [/color]
"We don't dictate to countries, we liberate countries." Mitt Romney [/color]
What DeSanto presented at Galacticon was that Adama had died and Boxey commanded the Galactica.
That's what I thought. The idea of recasting Adama with anyone just seems like a giant mistake that I can't envision DeSanto ever considering (unless that was from when he was thinking "remake" rather than continuation which I think was what he was doing when he first became involved with the project)
:edit: Jewels closed your quote tag, was missing a slash:
What DeSanto presented at Galacticon was that Adama had died and Boxey commanded the Galactica.
There were other versions of the script. Ian McKellan comes from some of Scooter's sources, if I recall.
According to Scooter/KornFan Adama was to be in the original DeSanto mini-series but would die by the end of it ( Supposedly the one responsible for his death would be played by Michael Ironside). Orin(Boxey) would be in command of the fleet
Erik, Thomas, or Don might recall better, but the only names I remember mentioned, by DeSanto himself, were TOS actors and 3 alternate directors names.
Paul, a lot of what KornFan/Scooter said was fairly far afield, Michael got fed a lot of disinformation too.... larocque did some cross referencing and somewhere along the food chain that disinformation had to be coming from the same person on the inside. They had figured out who were people's contacts.
__________________
"We feel free when we escape – even if it be but from the frying pan to the fire." Mozzie on White Collar
"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one." Malcolm Reynolds [/color]
"We don't dictate to countries, we liberate countries." Mitt Romney [/color]
I can't see anyone other than Lorne Green as Adama, especially if the original cast is brought back. However, if there is a remake that keeps true to the original story, I don't have a problem with Adama being played by an actor that can portray the Commander with the same vibe that Green had.
I've never seen Hatch's trailer, but I've seen pictures and despite what some may think of his project, it was sure good to see Apollo and Tigh back in uniform. I did watched Moore's version and did not like what was done with the characters. I didn't like the Babylon 5 looking uniforms, nor did I like the human-looking Cylons. Alas, we have no choice but to accept it as what it is, a re-imagined story based on Larson's Battlestar Galactica. We can deal with it as a mere interpretation of the original story or disregard it as felgercarb.
Last edited by Apollon; May 7th, 2004 at 05:22 AM..
Reason: Edited for spelling.
There are many versions of Battlestar Galactica out there between TOS, BG80, the various books, the mini, fan fiction, and the new series coming soon. All are canon or non-canon based on the mind of the fan. Whether anything becomes the majority view of the majority of fans depends on how "true" the interpretation is to most people.
In my mind there is a pretty developed back story to TOS. Many do not know about it and others do. It is based on TOS based written stories. I consider BG80 to be a story unto itself but not related to the real Galactica. I do notice many hold the "Return of Starbuck" episode to be canon in their own mind. I consider the mini to be a story unto itself and not related to TOS. However I think it possible to link them and wrote a fan fiction to that extent. We will see what Moore does or does not do to that effect. I consider the books out there to be possibilities for a TOS continuation but hold nothing as cannon although in my own mind I prefer to believe that Martoks "Dark Exodus" is the real story of the end of the quest to find Earth.
I think "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder" a good thing to hold onto here.
Unfortunately placing a large amount of continuity-questionable material under the heading of “canon” opens up even more issues for debate than already exist in BSG fandom. Following the Trek formula, canon should only be what is shown on the series or film. Unfortunately for Galactica fans, that in and of itself presents problems, since the film release and telemovies can contradict the weekly series. My own strict guidelines used to be: If its not on the videos of the weekly episodes, then it's not canon. I have now adjusted that slightly, because the deleted scenes presented on the DVDs add a great deal. If they present something that contradicts what was actually aired, however, I have to go back to that.
As for G80, it shares the same fate as the animated Trek: It is not generally considered canon, but one episode may be.
" consider the mini to be a story unto itself and not related to TOS. However I think it possible to link them and wrote a fan fiction to that extent. " Where is this fan fiction located?
In what way was Richard unfaithful to the series in his novels? I know that he got Wilker and Salik confused, but what else?
#1-Rigel suddenly became a man instead of a woman
#2-Omega is described as an old man.
#3-Baltar's imprisonment for half the series is forgotten
#4-So too is the climax of "War Of The Gods" involving the revelation of the general heading for Earth, a plot point that was recurring and which "Galactica 1980" didn't even forget (it is referenced in "Return Of Starbuck")
#5-After continuing the Apollo-Sheba relationship in the first novel, this is suddenly dropped with no explanation in novel #2 and we suddenly get Apollo and Casssiopeia ultimately coming together. Major mistake.
There's a lot more. Another fanfic writer and I once tried to put together something called "A Nitpickers Guide To Armageddon" just to point out all the areas where it conflicted with the series in plot points and character behavior but it got so massive we had to give up the idea.
#5-After continuing the Apollo-Sheba relationship in the first novel, this is suddenly dropped with no explanation in novel #2 and we suddenly get Apollo and Casssiopeia ultimately coming together. Major mistake.
Eric -
During that one Richard Hatch chat a while back - I asked Richard for the reason concerning this switcheroo. His answer was: "To create drama". I know that the same thing happens in Daytime Soaps all the time. Even though that was his stated reason, I didn't really agree with it - it might work from a writer's standpoint, but if you look at the characters and relationships from a "real life" standpoint, it probably wouldn't happen.
At least some of the characters had evolved a bit in that 25 yahren gap - Starbuck and Cassie had managed to come together long enough to have a daughter. I found the fact that Apollo and Sheba wouldn't be sealed at this point to be pretty unrealistic - if they hadn't there should have been a good reason for it and probably wouldn't still be with each other and moved on to other people.
Some of the books I liked and some I didn't - some of the inconsistencies can be attributed to Richard's various co-writers and some very poor editing on the publishers part. You kind of just have to do your best to get through these inconsistencies while reading, but it isn't easy all the time.
There is some very good fanfiction out there, it's too bad that those couldn't be tapped for books as well....
There is some very good fanfiction out there, it's too bad that those couldn't be tapped for books as well....
Well, we are always available! It is too bad that Galactica isn't like Trek, where just about any novel can get published and it isn't necessary whether it conflicts with other novels etc. In the meantime, we'll just keep writing our own visions of what happened next for the sheer fun of it. I've been at it for 12 years now and it's literally been the one reason that's helped me stay a Galactica fan.
" consider the mini to be a story unto itself and not related to TOS. However I think it possible to link them and wrote a fan fiction to that extent. " Where is this fan fiction located?
The fan fiction I wrote that connects the Moore universe to the TOS universe is located at a couple web sites that I am aware of. You can read it right here at Colonial Fleets. In the Colonial Library it is probably a page or two back. The story is entitled "Introduction to Colonial History 101".
I am not the best fiction writer but I do believe that if Moore would make the effort such a link would help to unite the Battlestar fan base since the Moore version would no longer be stepping on TOS.
For those who would like to hear the overall concept but don't have time or want to read the story here is the scenario in a nutshell:
This is a clever idea, but leaves it highly coincidental that the characters have the same names etc. I appreciate your efforts, but unless that this a Star Trek like Alternate Reality storyline, it can never tie in......
I have to agree. While Galactica 1980 can be reconciled as existing within the same universe as real Galactica (with a little bit of fudging) in a fanfic story, the same just cannot be done with Moore unless it is part of the old sci-fi cliche of "parallel universe" and other dimensions. Even in my own mind, I envision a story of "Lee" flying into an opening that deposits him in the universe of the real Galactica where Starbuck and Apollo are on patrol and order him to surrender.
Now, there could be room for some similiarities for "Lee" to notice that show how even parallel universes can duplicate some things in exact detail. Ultimately, the good old SOL would reappear at the climax with an explanation of how even in parallel universes where there are so many differences, the currents of history dictate that there exist at a given generation in the history of a civilization, people with the same names and similar backgrounds coalesced in a general location.
While I think the parallel universe cliche is an overused concept, it's the only one that can be used if you want to bring the two together. Suggesting that the miniseries takes place in the same one even a thousand generations later starts from a totally impossible premise to begin with IMO.
This is a clever idea, but leaves it highly coincidental that the characters have the same names etc. I appreciate your efforts, but unless that this a Star Trek like Alternate Reality storyline, it can never tie in......
IMHO
Very few characters have the same name as the people in TOS. Callsigns however may be popular things based on their mythology, something they would share from TOS.
The two versions can be reconciled if the powers that be wanted them to. Most people I think however would prefer not to reconcile them however because that may confer some kind of legitimacy to Moore's version.
The two versions can be reconciled if the powers that be wanted them to. Most people I think however would prefer not to reconcile them however because that may confer some kind of legitimacy to Moore's version.
The parallel universe story you might even get someone who hates and despises the Moore vision as I do to give a chance. But as for setting Moore in the same universe as the original, even thousands of yahrens later, would never be accepted IMO.
The Only Two Galacticas.
It is too bad that Galactica isn't like Trek, where just about any novel can get published and it isn't necessary whether it conflicts with other novels etc. In the meantime, we'll just keep writing our own visions of what happened next for the sheer fun of it. I've been at it for 12 years now and it's literally been the one reason that's helped me stay a Galactica fan.
